On the State of Digital Aids for D+D/D20/OGL

[kingpaul]

Since most of what I do is NPC generation, clumping the process in the manner in which I would do it on paper is essential.

PCGen recently added an NPC generator. I think its at 0.1 release, but is is there.

If I can just say, "make a fighter 10/ranger 2, and then pick a bunch of feats, throw a pile of skill points at skills, etc., and don't have to double-check my math to ensure that synergy bonuses and the like are taken care of, that will make my job much easier.

You can pick all the classes up front if you want. Unless they're classes that have some sort of requirement on them for entry (like prestige classes). Then you'll need to have the bare-bones requirements met before you add that class.

But that's how I do most of my character creation in PCGen. Throw the levels on, then add the feats/skills. Then go for equipment.

What's the deal with PCGen and networks?

The GMGen plug-in has network capability. Since I don't own a laptop, and I DM for the most part, my group doens't use GMGen. Someone else'll have to walk you through the network set up.

 

[iwarrior-poet]

Dr. Awkward----I agree with a lot of your points---but I actually don't like the idea of everyone having PC's in a gaming session. I know it would make things a LOT easier (if we had the digital aide we all dream of), but I think it would cut down on the camraderie and espirit de corps if everyone is looking at their screen every other second. My best, best case scenario is if the DM has a laptop and everyone else has some sort of PDA----but that is a distant pipedream. I would settle for the DM having a laptop, and the Player's having nice printouts of their PC's (and software on their home computers).

It would be too darn tricky if after having finally defeated that Balor---you and your buds want to jump up, shout, slap some high fives----but are too worried about knocking your laptop off the table, tripping on a powercord, or spilling that 20 oz. Mountain Dew on the keyboard...

 

[iwarrior-poet]

But that's how I do most of my character creation in PCGen. Throw the levels on, then add the feats/skills. Then go for equipment.

That right there could take upwards of a half-hour on PCGen (especially if you have more than the CORE datasets loaded), and that is about 29 minutes longer than I want to spend on most NPC stats.

 

[kingpaul]

That right there could take upwards of a half-hour on PCGen (especially if you have more than the CORE datasets loaded), and that is about 29 minutes longer than I want to spend on most NPC stats.

When was the last time you used PCGen? I haven't seen that kind of lag in quite some time. It used to be that sluggish, that I'll grant. But the code team has taken leaps and bounds in increasing the program speed.

 

[iwarrior-poet]

When was the last time you used PCGen? I haven't seen that kind of lag in quite some time. It used to be that sluggish, that I'll grant. But the code team has taken leaps and bounds in increasing the program speed.

Last week. I am using 5.10.1 with plenty of Ram and a 2.8 Ghz Intel chip. I have also done the "add extra ram" thingy.
I am loading 8-10 CMP 5.10.1 datasets---mixture of Complete Series, FR Campaign stuff and a few others.

 

[Firzair]

Not a very good one for those of us who don't code, and have no interest in coding.

As I'm currently developing such a program myself, I might ask how you would like your interface for such data entry.
The program I've created takes xml data for code and data.
I've started to code the xml for a character manager/generator for myself, with the base being a dialoge for defining the used objects (defining variables, their names, how they are entered/edited and show on the gui). Then there will be a dialoge to create the data entry form (not by drag and drop but by setting parameters but including tables etc.). So you can say you want a tab with name, sex, religion, alignment and the physical appearance, then another tab with the attributes, hitpoints, experience etc and so on. This can already be done with my program.
I've already created effects that create modifiers to object data when the feat is added to the char. I've also created an easy editor for each effect. Each effect is in fact an effect-object which defines the parameters for the effect and on function named for the effect which is fired when the effect comes into play.
The code is based on the RPGL developed by reanjir here on the boards.
Heres an example of such an effect:

  <function name="add-skill-points" value="1" type="@" source="@" text="@" remove="0" factor="1">
    <set name="value">
      <multiply>
        <a>value</a>
        <a>factor</a>
      </multiply>
    </set>
    <if>
      <a>remove</a>
      <set-modifier target=".skill-points.max" mod="0" type="[type]" source="[source]" text="[text]" />
      <a>
        <set-modifier target=".skill-points.max" mod="[value]" type="[type]" source="[source]" text="[text]" />
      </a>
    </if>
  </function>
  <effect name="add-skill-points">
    <label lang="en">Skill point modifier</label>
    <label lang="de">Fertigkeitspunkte-Modifikator</label>
    <parms>
      <parm name="value" />
      <parm name="type">
        <combo>
          <list>:modifier-type(*)</list>
          <display>modifier-type(*)</display>
        </combo>
      </parm>
      <parm name="source" />
    </parms>
  </effect>

From this data the editor for this is automatically created when a skill point modifier shall be added. The GUI can be customized by the xml data and I'm working on a gui editor from within the gui.
The program will be freeware.

What's your vision of data entry? I'd like to get input for what the program might by missing...

Greetings
Firzair

 

[soulcatcher]

What's the deal with PCGen and networks? At some point you mention that the initiative system is network-aware. If all my players have laptops, can I have them connect to me so that their stats auto-update when, say, a buff spell is cast, or so that they roll initiative themselves and it pops up on my initiative tracker. It's been a while since I've played around with PCGen, so I don't know what state the network support is in. In relation to the above, it would be very cool if you could use that treasure chest tool to move items directly to the PCs (or wherever) remotely, so that they can have their characters on their own systems, but you dole out the loot from the DM screen and don't have to keep track of everyone's characters yourself. Of course, I'd want to be able to view any character on the network and be able to add DM-only annotations.

OK, what it can do now is the following:
1) players can connect to the gm's 'server'
2) connected players (and the gm)can send notes to one another (iirc, it CCs the GM on all notes). And yes, this piece of functionality kind of sucks presently.
3) The players can also use the die roller (it CCs the GM with all dice rolls).
4) Any characters loaded on the PC's computers will show up in the initiative screen, with full statblocks. Said statblock will update with information as Players apply modifiers to themselves (spell effects, etc)
5) I think it can do rolling on those statblocks for some things, I don't recall specifically on this one. Note, the statblocks that are on the home system for each PC has lots of stuff that can be done with it.
6) the GM can assign (over the network) experience to characters, and all dead baddies will queue on the experience screen until the exp gets assigned (it can do 3.0 or 3.5 style experience calculation, and *yes* they are different)
7) The GM can easily add a bunch of baddies with minimal information (minimally, just the number of them, a name and hitpoints, but it'll take stats, saves and CR)
8) it can track spell durations, as well as bleeding and recovery.
9) for more reaslitic combat, you can have the baddies all go on their own initiatives, or all at once.
10) iirc it logs the whole combat.
11) Other things, it's been a while since I touched it.

Note: the treasure things does not exist, but I would really like it to.

It would be super if I could give a character a wand that is unidentified, and which a successful UMD roll would activate, reducing the number of charges by one, and also flag with the +2 bonus for that particular character having successfully activated it, but without revealing any information to the character. The DM would automatically see that it's a wand of fireball with 12 charges, and once it was identified, the DM could click a check box to make it visible to the players as well.

This would be a must if we did the treasure chest.

While not all my players currently have laptops, being able to interface this way with those who do, by auto-updating changes to the characters, whether temporary or permanent, would be a big help in reducing the amount of information I'd have to manage by switching over to an electronic DM screen.

one thing it does not have, is the ability for the GM to assign known or unknown modifiers. the players have to do the modifier assignment. This is actually a much larger problem then you would think, and it pretty much required the re architecture I have been discussing to implement it properly. We probably could implement now it as a hack tho.

As for the initiative tracker itself, it would be nice if there was more functionality. I'm not sure what exactly I can do with it anyway, just playing around with it. It would be great if I could, for a cast spell, select multiple targets, and specify some effect that would automatically kick in. For example if I cast a Melf's acid arrow, it would be cool if I could select from a drop-down list that this spell does persistent damage and nothing else, select the damage from a drop-down (2d4) and then have a second drop-down become visible for "2nd round", which would in turn activate a third drop down for "3rd round", etc. That way I can just "fire and forget" a lot of effects. Being able to automatically figure in things like Bless or Mage Armour with dropdowns would also be nice. At the moment, there's the ability to import characters using the character tracker, but no way to update them on-the-fly (unless I'm missing something). I can click on a monster's attack in the initiative tab to have it attack a PC, using the monster's to-hit and the PC's AC, but I don't seem to be able to update with temporary effects. I can't, for example, cast Bull's Strength on the monster and have its Str increase (along with everything tied to Str) or cast Mage Armour on the PC and improve his AC. I can't even manually go in and improve his AC. I have to change it on every attack roll dialog, or I can click over to PCGen and add certain effects to the character using the character sheet, but it's fairly limited and should be easier to access. It's little things like this that get in the way of utility for me.

Yes, you can actually apply effects to the beasties, but not through that window. you have to go to the equipment tab in your pcgen window, and go to temporary modifiers. there you can apply those things. It would be nice if it was in the interface for initiative, but you *can* apply those effects.

I know that this is a lot of pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking, but this has turned into a thread about that sort of thing. I like integration, automation, and on-the-fly customizability in a DM aid, in addition to network functionality, and I want to be able to specify my own content using a user interface.

well, we are closer then you might think. most of the issue is interface, and exposing this stuff in an easy to use manor.

Initiative I think in general has a pretty good interface, and part of that is we haven't added *anything* that prevents one from just adding a bunch of guys with a dialog, and then starting a combat. The goal was to make all features things that added to it, not features that required the user to use them. When we figure otu how to add the temp mods to the interface in a way that doesn't interfere with it being easy, we'll od that.

Devon

 

[Ranger REG]

If you saw them, you'd know they don't need augmentation.

Then a reduction?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

well, we are closer then you might think. most of the issue is interface, and exposing this stuff in an easy to use manor.

Initiative I think in general has a pretty good interface, and part of that is we haven't added *anything* that prevents one from just adding a bunch of guys with a dialog, and then starting a combat. The goal was to make all features things that added to it, not features that required the user to use them. When we figure otu how to add the temp mods to the interface in a way that doesn't interfere with it being easy, we'll od that.

Devon

Well, that's encouraging. The only problem is that there's no material available anymore. Unless it suddenly becomes incredibly easy for me to dump material from new sourcebooks into PCGen, it has really, really limited functionality. There are only a handful of temporary effects available on the inventory tab, and none of them are Spell Compendium spells. That there is really no solution for that is probably going to spell the death of the project.

 

[soulcatcher]

Well, that's encouraging. The only problem is that there's no material available anymore. Unless it suddenly becomes incredibly easy for me to dump material from new sourcebooks into PCGen, it has really, really limited functionality. There are only a handful of temporary effects available on the inventory tab, and none of them are Spell Compendium spells. That there is really no solution for that is probably going to spell the death of the project.

Might I suggest that the people with the power to change this ultimately are you the players? If you start telling companies that you won't buy books that you can't get data for, that is the only way they will ever open up.

IMHO, most of the WotC sources beyond the SRD are actually fairly unbalanced, and not well written (Especially the original splat books). There is a world of open game material out there, most of it *better* the the WotC stuff. Buy monty cook, buy silvan, buy fantasy flight, buy green ronin. Use the fact that the real person in the market with power is you the consumer. Tell WotC that you aren't buying their books because there are no character generator options for it, and choose to buy books that if not already in data form, are from companies that will allow someone to generate it from their sources.

Even it it's not PCGen, many of these businesses *do* go out of their way to make their works available. That means these companies treat their customers with more respect. show them you appreciate it by using their rules in your games instead of the ones who treat their customers like they have no other place to go.

YMMV, but I find my games are better without completely broken classes like the Warlock. Just because WotC puts it out doesn't mean it's worth using in your game.

Devon