D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey: Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point. Barbarian scored well...

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

  • Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
  • Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
  • Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
  • Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
  • Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
  • Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
  • Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.


 

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DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I mean, in a full Adventure Day the casters will be running out of Slots handily.
And how often will they have a full Adventure Day versus all the days where they just walk around town, travel on the road from place to place, or have a single combat fight?

If you take every single "in-game" day between long rests (not just the big ones when they are actually on an adventure) and look at how many slots the entire table of spellcasters has left over and unused... I'm willing to bet most of the time they will have quite a bit. Rare will be the day that every caster taps out their slots for the day, usually that big adventure day. But otherwise, someone will always have a few slots free here and there-- especially when you get higher in level and full casters have like 10 or more slots they need to burn though each and every long rest.

Now sure, some tables might very well dungeoncrawl through a half-dozen encounters each and every in-game day, but those are rare in my estimation. And as a result... my point still stands: most tables have spell slots at their disposal at the end of the day and thus can be essentially considered to have some magic "always on" and available, especially spells from the lower levels. And thus the Ranger's 'Natural Explorer' ability that was "always on" just like spells are was almost exactly like the martial features that some players here want them to have-- even though most folks here also seemed to hate that 'Natural Explorer' Ranger feature.

So perhaps this idea that martials need features that work as consistently and without error as spells is not as popular an idea as some would make it to be. After all, (general) you were already given one, and yet you hated it.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
For it to not be a good comparison, you would need an entire table whose suite of spellcasters uses every single spell slot every single day so there's no slot left free to spend on a 'Natural Explorer' ability.

So long as more often than not all the casters take their long rests with unused spell slots... then they essentially have "always on" availability at hand and the comparison is fine.
Why on earth would long resting with unused spell slots be your default assumption?? That’s a horribly inefficient use of resources! A spell slot not spent by the time you take a long rest is a spell slot wasted.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
And how often will they have a full Adventure Day versus all the days where they just walk around town, travel on the road from place to place, or have a single combat fight?
Those aren’t adventuring days, pretty much by definition. Spell slots are an adventure resource, they’re not meant to be a significant limitation during downtime days.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
And how often will they have a full Adventure Day versus all the days where they just walk around town, travel on the road from place to place, or have a single combat fight?

If you take every single "in-game" day between long rests (not just the big ones when they are actually on an adventure) and look at how many slots the entire table of spellcasters has left over and unused... I'm willing to bet most of the time they will have quite a bit. Rare will be the day that every caster taps out their slots for the day, usually that big adventure day. But otherwise, someone will always have a few slots free here and there-- especially when you get higher in level and full casters have like 10 or more slots they need to burn though each and every long rest.

Now sure, some tables might very well dungeoncrawl through a half-dozen encounters each and every in-game day, but those are rare in my estimation. And as a result... my point still stands: most tables have spell slots at their disposal at the end of the day and thus can be essentially considered to have some magic "always on" and available, especially spells from the lower levels. And thus the Ranger's 'Natural Explorer' ability that was "always on" just like spells are was almost exactly like the martial features that some players here want them to have-- even though most folks here also seemed to hate that 'Natural Explorer' Ranger feature.

So perhaps this idea that martials need features that work as consistently and without error as spells is not as popular an idea as some would make it to be. After all, (general) you were already given one, and yet you hated it.
I mean, the game as designed and my experience suggests that it is the norm for when a party is out Adventuring...? I would posit that tables that don't push spellcasters to the brink (which is where the martials shine) are the minority report, not the norm.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Why on earth would long resting with unused spell slots be your default assumption?? That’s a horribly inefficient use of resources! A spell slot not spent by the time you take a long rest is a spell slot wasted.
I mean, I’m not gonna cast extra spells just to use up all my slots, nor is it a wasted resource when it’s one that automatically replenishes after a sleep.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I mean, I’m not gonna cast extra spells just to use up all my slots,
No, but it should generally be possible to get a sense of how the rest of the party is doing with regard to their limited resource use. Once others are starting to run low on HP, HD, spell slots, etc. you can bet they’re gonna want to rest soon, so it’s a good time to use up whatever you’ve got left.
nor is it a wasted resource when it’s one that automatically replenishes after a sleep.
The fact that they automatically replenish after a sleep is exactly why it’s a waste not to use them all before sleeping. If they didn’t come back after you slept, it would be best to hold onto them as long as you can. Since they do though, sleeping while you still have unspent spell slots means you’re effectively recovering fewer spent slots than you could have done.

Obviously this doesn’t apply if you’re in a situation where you aren’t being pressured enough to need to use your spells regularly. But, again, I’d say such situations are kind of by definition not adventuring days.
 

Ashrym

Legend
Bladesinger is a particularly problematic example, since that subclass grants something like 70+% of the capabilities of the fighter class, whereas the equivalent fighter subclass only grants perhaps 20% of the capabilities of the wizard class.
Bladesinger is an example of an issue where for some reason someone decided giving more to wizards was important. Personally, I think it's okay to have difference levels of combat vs magic in gish-type classes/subclasses but the wizard, a class so obviously focused on magic, is the last class I would consider giving that much martial capability too.

IMO, EK could have been given a bit more and bladesingers have too much going for them. I would be tempted to make bladesinger a fighter subclass instead of a wizard, and remove EK, tbh.
Spellcasters are often better at ability checks than martials due to their primary ability scores having more available proficiencies. Do you determine results to an ability check differently based on who rolled it?
In what context, however? STR and DEX are more useful out of combat than INT, WIS, or CHA depending on what is going on. My character cannot persuade a stuck door open or investigate across an open pit or crevasse. Spell casters may or may not have spells to deal with those but the ability checks aren't in their favor, and using a spell in that way removes the option to later use that spell slot again at another time to create an opportunity cost.

And look at monks or rangers. For all the complaints people might have both classes still focus on DEX and WIS. That's not just a spell caster thing. Rogues can focus on DEX and pretty much any other ability score they want. Reliable talent with some WIS and CHA on a rogue and proficiencies goes a long way in this area.

We aren't even talking about all spell casters in a general statement about primary ability score. INT is only there for recalling lore and investigation. It's not helping much in social or exploration challenges at all. WIS is useful in some ways but it's not going to accomplish CHA challenges either, and monks or rangers are going to use those stats too. CHA is there for bards, sorcerers, warlocks, or paladins. Useful for a few social checks but not other checks.

I don't think there's any catch-all advantage in the spell caster casting ability score that really outshines the number of uses for STR or DEX in exploration. My question would be "how is the DM populating challenges in the adventure"?
OK. But presumably that Warlock has their own backgrounds, interests, general world knowledge and skill modifiers, and you grant them the same benefits when investigating an aspect of the world where those are relevant? If you determine a check is needed and neither (or both) characters have relevant benefits from the above, do both characters have the same DC, and both get the same results from rolling the same total?
I would answer that it depends on context and circumstances. A DC 15 climb check is a DC 15 climb check. A persuasion check varies in results depending on factors such as friendly/neutral/hostile for whatever reason.

There's also the repeat roll rules and spending time to succeed if it's possible to succeed in the first place. Someone with a +3 ability score and +2 proficiency bonus and time can auto-succeed on DC 25 checks at 1st level without the pressure of danger. Spells that also apply ability checks cannot do that because an action doesn't allow for the time component within that action.

That's one of the benefits in how I play bards. I don't uses a spell at all when a skill can do the trick because spells are a finite resource and skills are not. Why would anyone spend a finite resource unnecessarily? Using those skills instead allows for having those slots available for when they are needed. IME, using spells outside of combat for utility is often only something that is done as a backup because of that resource management component, and typically only when a time crunch is on. That makes it an uncommon shine moment when it does occur.
This is a really cool way to handle those sort of interactions, but at the end of the day, if the ability checks fail and the NPC won't tell the party the information that they need, the warlock may have the option of casting suggestion, or scrying etc. The fighter does not.

At its core, this is one of the greatest misapprehensions of this particular issue: the fighter class doesn't get creativity, roleplaying, ability checks, and background features to make up for no spells compared to spellcasters. The spellcasters get all of those things as well as spells.
This is true, but those spells are shine moments. The fighters get their shine moments in combat or outside of combat on STR or DEX checks, which happen often enough. And any time the spell caster casts a spell that slot is gone for later. Running low on or out of spell slots increases those moments where martials have more opportunity to shine.
I mean, in a full Adventure Day the casters will be running out of Slots handily.
I don't necessarily let my players know how long they might be adventuring in the day. DM's have agency in determine appropriate or available times for rests. If the players don't know how long the adventuring day is going to be they become less likely to use those spell slots and may end up with slots at the end of the day or out of slots before the end of the day. I vary it up to keep players on their toes.
The fact that they automatically replenish after a sleep is exactly why it’s a waste not to use them all before sleeping. If they didn’t come back after you slept, it would be best to hold onto them as long as you can. Since they do though, sleeping while you still have unspent spell slots means you’re effectively recovering fewer spent slots than you could have done.
That assumes the spell caster has something applicable to which the spell slot can be applied. Ideally the slots should have been spent before that point but spell slots remaining right before a long rest can go to waste if there isn't some applicable way to apply them.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
That assumes the spell caster has something applicable to which the spell slot can be applied. Ideally the slots should have been spent before that point but spell slots remaining right before a long rest can go to waste if there isn't some applicable way to apply them.
If you were engaged in adventuring activity during the day, there was something applicable your spell slots could have been applied to, even if it was just dealing more damage in a previous combat. That might have ended the combat sooner and left your party able to tackle more adventuring that day before needing to rest.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't necessarily let my players know how long they might be adventuring in the day. DM's have agency in determine appropriate or available times for rests. If the players don't know how long the adventuring day is going to be they become less likely to use those spell slots and may end up with slots at the end of the day or out of slots before the end of the day. I vary it up to keep players on their toes.
In which case, the spellcasters will be wont to let martial characters take care of as much as possible, and hold their Spell slots carefully. Just in case.
 

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