D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Shardstone]

King Arthur and Ulysses don't actually fight monsters, and Arthur in particular has at least two artifacts on his character sheet.

In the stories where this is relevant, both Batman and Green Arrow are playing a narrative game with a lot of metacurrency, certainly not D&D. In their own stories they tend to be more grounded.

Beowulf isn't mundane. The feats he is described as accomplishing are beyond human ability.

Allow those caveats and I will accept any of these.

I have no idea who or what Krillin is.

Arthur kills giants in many of the old stories.

 

[CreamCloud0]

But that isn't much of a solution. You are either off boarding the solution to a Metagame concept (a fighter at 5th level will always get their hands on a guaranteed magic sword) or you are adding roundabout magic anyway (why when a fighter kills a 1000 monsters, his shield becomes magical but not a barbarian or paladin's shield? How does that work in fiction and why only for fighters? Is that something innate in the fighter? If yes, aren't we back to magical abilities, just on step removed?)

maybe the paladin's and the other class's use of their own magic prevents the process from occuring, maybe the fighter's soul rubs off onto their gear empowering it, i don't care, i'll metagame solutions all the way if it's better for balance, sometimes just being one step removed is enough for some people, obviously you don't care about the difference of being one step removed but it could matter to others and make their fighter class fantasy experience enjoyable.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then, as a wise person said to me, play a different game.

I do. Level Up has five mundane classes (fighter, marshal, ranger, rogue, and savant), and they all work pretty darn well. There are no fights about magical worlds erasing the mundane over in Level Up Town.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Arthur kills giants in many of the old stories.

Does he use his artifact sword?

 

[Mecheon]

And if WotC had the courage to be clear about that in their own products, I would agree. But they don't.

I mean, you say 'Courage' but uh, I'm gonna be honest on this one? D&D since day 1 has always been a high fantasy thing that's about as far from low fantasy as you can get. The fact the base game comes with three fantastical races and two magic users right off the bat is pretty much indicating its supposed stuff, and low magic ain't it.

People have mangled it into a low magic toolkit, but I very specifically use mangled there because, it ain't designed for it from day 1

King Arthur and Ulysses don't actually fight monsters, and Arthur in particular has at least two artifacts on his character sheet.

Arthur fights plenty of monsters, just depends on which exact retelling you read, and Odysseus is infamous for having to deal with monsters (albeit tricking them as he is the archetypal rogue)

I have no idea who or what Krillin is.

Secondary character from Dragonball and Dragonball Z. Regular human and therefore completely overpowered by the majority of characters in the later stuff. His main thing is destructo disks. Married an android, short.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's not an insult, it's just that high level reading means that not everything has to be stated in the book. Obviously you're a high level reader since you're debating subtext, so you shouldn't take this as a barb. Apologies though!

True, and thank you. But that assumes that the same subtext is there for everyone to find, and it doesn't explain the discrepancy of why a couple classes and all but one heritage use that subtext but no one else does.

 

[Remathilis]

maybe the paladin's and the other class's use of their own magic prevents the process from occuring, maybe the fighter's soul rubs off onto their gear empowering it, i don't care, i'll metagame solutions all the way if it's better for balance, sometimes just being one step removed is enough for some people, obviously you don't care about the difference of being one step removed but it could matter to others and make their fighter class fantasy experience enjoyable.

So if the fighter's "innate supernatural abilities" manifest as "you can imbue your gear with supernatural effects " that's good enough for you?

I'll take it as a compromise (full disclosure, I don't like gear based power, even spell books, because they always end up being targets) if it means I don't have to beg for magic swords just to fight mid level threats.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, you say 'Courage' but uh, I'm gonna be honest on this one? D&D since day 1 has always been a high fantasy thing that's about as far from low fantasy as you can get. The fact the base game comes with three fantastical races and two magic users right off the bat is pretty much indicating its supposed stuff, and low magic ain't it.

People have mangled it into a low magic toolkit, but I very specifically use mangled there because, it ain't designed for it from day 1


Arthur fights plenty of monsters, just depends on which exact retelling you read, and Odysseus is infamous for having to deal with monsters (albeit tricking them as he is the archetypal rogue)

Secondary character from Dragonball and Dragonball Z. Regular human and therefore completely overpowered by the majority of characters in the later stuff. His main thing is destructo disks. Married an android, short.

I never said D&D was low magic, but two classes and one heritage don't rely on it for their power, and the others explicitly do so. Why should I assume it is true for everyone when they say outright it is true for most but pointedly leave a few out?

I don't know the legends of Arthur you're talking about (sound cool though, although not I think in Mallory; happy to be wrong about that), but he is likely either performing superhuman feats like Beowulf (and therefore isn't mundane), or he is using his artifact sword.

You don't need to be high level to trick monsters, so I can't accept an epic level Ulysses.

Thanks for the bio on Krillin. He doesn't sound like he's on level with his magic friends though, by your own admission, so to keep up he would likely need Batman/Green Arrow levels of metacurrency.

 

[FrogReaver]

Thanks for the blatant insult, by the way. I don't recall insulting you in that fashion.

Indeed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Please show me the text in the PHB that says fantasy humans are exactly equivalent to earth humans.

Until you demonstrate that, you're house ruling.

Please tell me where it says they aren't. Until you demonstrate that, you're house ruling.