D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Micah Sweet]

What would be a good example of the verbiage you would look for?

Anything about all characters having a supernatural source for their power (at least eventually), and something about humans not being like real world humans in some supernatural way beyond skin and hair color, or that ambient magic makes everyone in the world supernatural and capable of magical feats.

Feel free to find something in the text that "proves" me wrong about this already being there in WotC D&D.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Right, so in the case of what we are calling the "non-magical" classes (the PHB does not label them this way), if the book specified physical abilities that aren't Earth normal, then those would be specified in exactly the same way that the ability to cast spells is specified.

Yeah, pretty much. Call it out, just like magic.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Anything about all characters having a supernatural source for their power (at least eventually), and something about humans not being like real world humans in some supernatural way beyond skin and hair color, or that ambient magic makes everyone in the world supernatural and capable of magical feats.

Feel free to find something in the text that "proves" me wrong about this already being there in WotC D&D.

Would..

"Players should keep in mind that, while in many ways the setting for their adventures may resemble Earth..such setting are not of Earth and may differ in important and unexpected ways. The DM will help them navigate those differences as they arise"

..suffice?

 

[Gammadoodler]

Yeah, pretty much. Call it out, just like magic.

So if at level 12, the fighter got the ability

Combat Toughness
Experience has made you better able to weather the blows you receive. Now you can reduce incoming B,P,S damage by 1/2 your level plus your Con mod.

Then, we're good?

 

[Chaosmancer]

rogue: "alright i'm going rogue so i can pick all the locks"
wizard: "oh good, that frees up one of my spell choices"
rogue: "...i'm worth a single spell choice to you?"

Yeah.

I mean, it is great that the rogue being in the party won't be overshadowed by the wizard... but it kind of sucks that is because the wizard chooses to do something else. It isn't like the rogue ever goes "Oh, we have wizard? Awesome, then I won't bother with [insert ability here]"

 

[Chaosmancer]

As to why sorcerers and wizards can’t make their mage hands invisible like arcane tricksters.

Just to be clear, I agree that class-exclusive abilities and spells shouldn’t be available to other classes. The point that I’m making is that the nitpicking about whether a fighter can take a certain action because “fighters are mundane” makes AS MUCH SENSE AS arguing that wizards should be able to make their mage hands invisible, since arcane tricksters can do it and they are just casting wizard spells.

The world’s rules are inconsistent, because it is not a simulation of reality but with magic. Fighters can do fantastical heroic things because it is a game of heroic fantasy.

That's fair, and I agree with that. I just know others don't, so I found other reasons so they can be satisfied.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It can't be physiological since if it was, all biological creatures of the same type would do it.

I think it could be argued that all biological creatures with the same training and experiences CAN do it. Because out of all the DnD classes, only the fighter fights and utilizes their resources in the way fighters do.

I agree it tip-toes into the supernatural, but it is the same sort of supernatural as barbarians, monks and rogues. Which, I agree, rogues need a bit more defining. I don't think barbarians do, because I fear that if we define them a bit more, we would risk losing the fine balance between Primal, Arcane, and Divine sources the barbarian currently allows us to play with.

 

[Chaosmancer]

By the same token, why should we assume that the differences between humans in a D&D setting are wider than they are in real life? Where is that written (beyond asthetic stuff like a wider range of skin and hair color)?

Because as per the PHB humans in DnD settings have the blood of non-human species within them, which do not exist in humans in real life.

DnD humans can, by virtue of their parents, also be tieflings, Aasimar, Genasi, or be bound with a Quori spirit as a Kalashtar. All not features of real life humans.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Amobg other reasons, because fantasy media has humans in it that don't appear to have abilities beyond what Earth humans are capable of? Certainly not without calling such abilities out.

Like @Remathilis said, if Faerun humans can do things Earth humans can't, then they aren't humans.

Some media. Others




Do not make that assumption. "He is strong" or "he is a good fighter" is all the explanation they give for frankly ridiculous feats. Like that last one, normal high school student, without good form, beats the world record by 7 meters by throwing a shot-put like a baseball. No special training, no special origin, he's just... a naturally inhuman athlete.

 

[James Gasik]

But does the game have to assume verisimilitude isn't fun?

I'm not sure that it does, specifically. I think it's more, "you can have verisimilitude if you want it, or not". As much text has been written, there is no default way to play, nor is there a wrong way to play D&D- but some adjustments may need to be made to suit a given playstyle.