OotS 406

[Nifft]

Heh, as much as people hate Miko, that's the one character that can generate the most chatter about a strip. I haven't seen a OOTS strip discussion go into 5 pages since... oh since Miko last danced with Belkar.

I don't hate Miko... but I'm a sucker for Paladin threads.
Like quite a few people here.

-- N

 

[ephemeron]

No. I hate to be the DM in this situation.

IF the paladin's player pulled a stunt on me like that, I'd probably say: "what is your conscience tell you?"

I think that if I were the DM, Miko would have gotten a couple of memos from the gods by now. "Please review the 'Justice vs. Vengeance' section of your employee handbook, and do be aware that disciplinary action will be required if..."

 

[Valesin]

Also, when supernatural powers from beyond (read: Granted Detect Evil ability) tell you someone is not evil, and you decide they are anyway....Yeah, hello Miko, Fighter Without Bonus Feats.

This is like the 5th post suggesting Detect Evil is a foolproof divination spell, and I am only on page 2.

Do I really need to list the ways that an ability based on a 1st level spell can be defeated? Do you really only allow Paladins in your game to attack stuff that detects as evil?

 

[Nonlethal Force]

PS I'm pretty sure Shojo has specifically said hes a Neutral Good Aristocrat.


[Edit] I jut looked it up, he just says he's not Lawful. But I still agree that he's Neutral Good. He hasn't done anything really Chaotic, just "for the greater good" type stuff, which is definite Neutral Good behavior[/Edit]

And ... we ahve any reason to believe Shojo? The man is as much of a manipulator of the truth as Nale is a manipulator of people. In fact, I think Shojo is a better manipulator than Nale! You've got to be good to fool 100% of the paladins 100% of the time.

I still stand by my prediction that Shojo is evil. He'se definately not Lawful. I'd put him at a solid NE.

 

[amazingshafeman]

The trouble with Shojo being evil is the sheer amount of chance he faces that someone will find out. Surrounded by paladins, dealing with clerics, nobles hunting for any little secret they can use against him, and occasionally summoning celestials for trials are not points in an Evil characters life that they just shrug away. The first time a Hound Archon says, "I can not do this deed for the likes of him," and points out Shojo, the gig is up.

 

[Scorpion13]

And ... we ahve any reason to believe Shojo? The man is as much of a manipulator of the truth as Nale is a manipulator of people. In fact, I think Shojo is a better manipulator than Nale! You've got to be good to fool 100% of the paladins 100% of the time.

I still stand by my prediction that Shojo is evil. He'se definately not Lawful. I'd put him at a solid NE.

So, do you have any proof of this? Any evidence for this conclusion at all, outside of "He broke the sacred codes of the order"? Because in my book, something like that doesnt make you evil in itself: Its makes you non-lawful.

Lets not forget that Miko also said that she knew the OOTS were working for Xykon. And how did she come to this conclusion? Xykon told her. And she chose to believe a friggin Lich. Why? Because she wants to believe him.

If youre a Paladin, and youre where you want to do something so bad that you would believe a Lich instead of your own lying eyes, then I cant believe that you have any kind of sense of duty or morality besideswhatever makes you feel good.

 

[wingsandsword]

The trouble with Shojo being evil is the sheer amount of chance he faces that someone will find out. Surrounded by paladins, dealing with clerics, nobles hunting for any little secret they can use against him, and occasionally summoning celestials for trials are not points in an Evil characters life that they just shrug away. The first time a Hound Archon says, "I can not do this deed for the likes of him," and points out Shojo, the gig is up.

Exactly, he strikes me as a NG type. He means quite well, even altruistically to a degree, but he is willing to bend or break laws, and lie and deceive when needed to see what is good for Azure City and the world done. It's not a global statement of "The ends justify the means" as much as it is "it's worth breaking an oath to save the world from destruction".

If he was Evil, I'd think that with all the summoned Celestials, Detect Evil, and intrigue and spying that happens in Azure City, people would have noticed now. He acts senile as a defense, but that just makes him look very chaotic. One of the various factions that would look to overthrow him would just love to use a provably Evil alignment as a political tool, a way to turn his Paladins against him.

Just because you have to lie to get your job done doesn't mean you're evil, it just means you probably aren't LG.

 

[Pbartender]

Dr. Awkward, paradox42 and others...

For the record, I honestly think that Miko will end up becoming an ex-Paladin, at the least, in the near future.

All I was saying is that Miko's player may... almost certainly... believes she's following the Paladin's Code the way she's supposed, and is likely using the sorts of justifications I mentioned above. Those justifications don't necessarily make what's going right (and I honestly don't necessarily agree with them), but I can certainly understand how Miko the character, and Miko's player, could have gotten this far into this big of a mess without ever realizing they were doing anything overtly wrong.

 

[Andor]

All I was saying is that Miko's player may... almost certainly... believes she's following the Paladin's Code the way she's supposed, and is likely using the sorts of justifications I mentioned above. Those justifications don't necessarily make what's going right (and I honestly don't necessarily agree with them), but I can certainly understand how Miko the character, and Miko's player, could have gotten this far into this big of a mess without ever realizing they were doing anything overtly wrong.

But Miko doesn't have a player, she's an NPC. Whatever she does she does for the purpose of furthering the GMs story. And right now I'm watching a story about a falling paladin. What the future holds is a more open question, but I've already put in my 2¢ in there.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

So, do you have any proof of this? Any evidence for this conclusion at all.

No, that's why it is caled a prediction. If I had proof, then I'd call it a fact.

After all, I thought this thread was about discussion the possibilities of the future. I didn't realize anyone actually knew for certain what Rich was going to write besides Rich. I don't mean this to be snarky, so I'm sorry if it comes off that way. I guess I'm just trying to say that this is a comic. There's no need to push the discussion to "I'm right and you're wrong," is there? Because if there is, then I'm dropping out before it becomes an arguement. I was just having fun asserting a possibility against the tide of "Miko's so already a blackguard." I do think she's falling to an ex-paladin (but not necessarily a blackguard). I also think claiming that Shojo has to be good is also a bit presumptuous. All we know about him is whats been written, and most of that is from Shojo's own mouth.