D&D 5E Opinions: Clone and artificial aging

[GMMichael]

They key part of this text is creature. In DnD 5e, corpses and other (to use the wording in Clone) inert bodies are not creatures, they are objects.

I know the Clone spell calls it an "inert duplicate of a living, Medium creature" but that does not make it a creature, in the same way that Simulacrum creates a "duplicate of one beast or humanoid" that is neither a beast nor a humanoid (it is a construct). So, by my interpretation, the Clone spell creates an object until such time as it is inhabited by a soul, at which point it becomes a creature. Before then, I treat it as an invalid target for anything requiring a creature as the target.

So, zombies and animated objects aren't creatures? They seem to count as "monsters."

I'd rule this one of three ways -
- The aging spell accelerates the already accelerated aging of the clone, which makes it a wrinkly, old shell that's, well, Yoda.
- The clone, aging rapidly, is already under the effect of an aging spell, so the two don't stack.
- The aging spell works as intended, but the caster warps 120 days into the future.

 

[MarkB]

I feel like there's a difference between maturation and aging, even if the game doesn't really go into it (probably due to the designers not considering it being used that way). For instance, if a ten-year-old child sees a ghost, fails their saving throw, and ages ten years, I don't think they suddenly grow up to become an adult.

In the same way, even if the spell could be applied to the clone, which it can't because an inert duplicate of a creature is not a creature, it would basically cause the clone to deteriorate by the equivalent of 10d4 years' aging, rather than causing it to mature to completion.

 

[BlivetWidget]

So, zombies and animated objects aren't creatures? They seem to count as "monsters."

I can only assume you quoted my post without reading it. Neither zombies nor animated objects are inert bodies. Magic can be used to imbue an object with animus, at which point it becomes a creature. This includes anything from undead skeletons to flying swords. An object not so imbued remains an object.

 

[GMMichael]

I can only assume you quoted my post without reading it.

Quite possible. Stranger things have happened.

But I did read your post. I suppose by "corpses" you meant "non-undead corpses," because zombies, ghouls, ghasts, skeletons, vampires, and so on, are decidedly corpses. The "inert bodies" thing is a little confusing, because animated objects are just as much creatures, by that definition, as marionettes are.

The 5e Clone spell doesn't clear this up. The vessel is supposed to contain "a medium creature," which "grows" during the spell. If it grows like a duck and admits a soul like a duck, it's probably a duck.

See the Raise Dead spell for greater confusion.

 

[BlivetWidget]

Quite possible. Stranger things have happened.

But I did read your post. I suppose by "corpses" you meant "non-undead corpses," because zombies, ghouls, ghasts, skeletons, vampires, and so on, are decidedly corpses. The "inert bodies" thing is a little confusing, because animated objects are just as much creatures, by that definition, as marionettes are.

The 5e Clone spell doesn't clear this up. The vessel is supposed to contain "a medium creature," which "grows" during the spell. If it grows like a duck and admits a soul like a duck, it's probably a duck.

See the Raise Dead spell for greater confusion.

I consider that undead cease to be corpses when they become undead. I use the word "corpse" as it is used in common English, to specifically refer to an inanimate, dead body. But that is my own convention, not one codified in the rules. I would say a zombie was a corpse.

The difference between a marionette and an animated object is, to me and to the rules, quite clear. The marionette must be actively puppeteered. The animated object has a stat block: it has its own strength, intelligence, charisma, etc. It can accept a vague order like "guard the corridor" or "attack that creature" and work out the details for itself.

To me, the wording of Clone is also clear: the vessel does not contain a medium creature, it rather specifically contains an "inert duplicate" of said medium creature, and one without a soul at that. If your understanding of "inert" in this context differs from mine, we may simply need to agree to disagree.

Raise Dead is just one of many spells with poor wording. I'll let you watch the mental gymnastics at play being used to retroactively justify the word choice. But again, to me, the intent is clear.

 

[Flamestrike]

DMs of 5e- If a wizard has a way to artificially age a creature, would you think that method could shorten the 120 days time required for a clone spell to mature?

No.

Aging is entropy caused by time. A spell that affects that entropy affecting a creature, doesnt affect time itself.

The caster should just Plane Shift to a Plane with a different time than the material (a faster one). That's a much more efficient and better way of speeding it up.

 

[Flamestrike]

They key part of this text is creature. In DnD 5e, corpses and other (to use the wording in Clone) inert bodies are not creatures, they are objects.

I know the Clone spell calls it an "inert duplicate of a living, Medium creature" but that does not make it a creature, in the same way that Simulacrum creates a "duplicate of one beast or humanoid" that is neither a beast nor a humanoid (it is a construct). So, by my interpretation, the Clone spell creates an object until such time as it is inhabited by a soul, at which point it becomes a creature. Before then, I treat it as an invalid target for anything requiring a creature as the target.

Yup.

Corpses and swords and armor are 'objects', undead and animated objects and people are 'creatures'.

Take Eldritch blast:

A beam of crackling energy streaks toward a creature within range. Make a ranged spell Attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 1d10 force damage.

You can target a person with Eldritch blast, but you cant target a corpse. You can target an animated armour with an Eldritch blast (it's a creature), but you cant target a suit of normal armour (its an object).

 

[Coroc]

Looking for opinions here.

DMs of 5e- If a wizard has a way to artificially age a creature, would you think that method could shorten the 120 days time required for a clone spell to mature?

For reference, a clone is described as "an inert duplicate of a living, Medium creature"; the aging spell in question has the following relevant text: "Make a melee spell attack against a creature in range. If you hit, the target ages 10d4 years, gaining one level of exhaustion in the process.
If you maintain concentration on this spell for the entire duration, its effects become permanent.
The aging can be reversed by a lesser restoration cast within 24 hours or a greater restoration cast within 1 week."

By the book? Wish spell (very carefully worded) or a ghost to do your bidding.

Edit: unsure if a clone corpse counts as a living being or an object as @Flamestrike sees it though. Imho it is not a corpse either by definition, personally I would go with living being without a soul, so a ghosts attack should work.