Opinions/Experiences/Advice on Sovereign Stone classes & magic system for low magic

[kenjib]

I think that it's worth it to get both books if you can afford it. They cost the same price and the campaign setting has almost as many spells as the codex (with no overlap). If you don't get the setting book you are missing some important basic spells like dispel magic, sense magic (along with the new rules needed for spellcraft), detoxify poison, a couple of mid range healing spells, a spell for creating skeletons, a bunch of scrying and telepathy spells, and others. You could just get the codex but I think that there would be a few small holes to be patched (or ignored).

On the flip side of the coin, only the codex has rules for magic item creation and for determining the Casting Threshold for new spells that you invent.

In addition, with the campaign setting book you get other classes like mounted warrior, noble, stalker, etc. I am of the opinion that if you change the magic system you will need these other classes, or something like them. Changing the magic system in D&D requires that you modify or remove all of the following: cleric, sorcerer, wizard, paladin, ranger, druid, and bard. In addition, if you change the scaling of magic item power as people increase in level, monks become unbalanced as well. With the majority of the PHB classes needing to be removed or reworked I think that it's really just easier to get the book and have the work already done for you.

The setting book is pretty rules heavy. I actually think that it's pretty lacking in info about the world itself. This is a weakness for people who want to play in Loerem, but a strength for people like me who primarily want to pillage the book for the new rules.

It is a bit pricey to get both perhaps, and there is overlap, so I'm sure you could get by with just the Codex, but there is definitely still value in the campaign setting book if you can afford them both.

As before, someone please correct me if I've gotten anything wrong. I'm still going over the books, but so far the more I read, the more I like it.

 

[RFisher]

Hmmm.

I looked at both books, and it looked like the Codex repeated almost everything relating to magic. So, I bought the Codex and was quite impressed. It did seem like some basic spells were missing.

On the one hand, I'm happy to know that those missing spells do exist. On the other hand, I'm a little annoyed that they aren't in the Codex.

As for non-magic-using classes, from a cursory examination, I liked the Wheel of Time classes better than the SS classes. I was planning on buying the WoT book and using its non-magic-using classes with the Codex. Now, my next purchase isn't so clear-cut.

Of course, I think Barbarian, Fighter, (Monk,) Rogue, and the Codex magicians make a fine set of choices by themselves.

 

[Jackcarter]

After seeing couple reviews and whathaveyou here, I wonder whether or not it might not be better just buying WoT instead of SS? The magic system, from a cursory glance, seems somewhat similar to each other and the non-magic classes from both seem redundant. However, WoT has better production value and the concensus I've seen thus far on its non-magic classes is that they are very good, solid, alternative low-magic fantasy archetypes.

As for magic, not having neither products, it just seems from first glance that the Weave is more elegant and functional than SS. Especially if what Arcady is saying about SS is essentially correct. There does seem to be problem with the lack of spells in WoT vis-a-vis SS, but I've heard from few people that standard spells can be switched to Weave with little effort.

Since you are getting good low-magic classes and a solid magic system that blends feats and skills well with WoT, wouldn't it be better to get WoT if one desires to play in a low-magic setting? SS Codex has many more spells, but the magic system, going by Arcady's criticism, seems to be less than perfect and in need of some revisions. Personally, I would not like a magic system that does not give enough emphasis to the importance of levels, as that makes multi-classing way too attractive otherwise.

What do you think, especially for those who have both products?

 

[Tsyr]

No.

Personaly, I was extreamly underimpressed with the Wheel of Time system. It's elegant, but IMO not really that good. And I prefer the SS system by far.

I think Arcady exagerates the unimportance of levels quite a bit.

 

[kenjib]

Wheel of Time still uses spell slots, thus it's still hung up on leftovers from the old Jack Vancian model. If I want to break away from standard D&D magic I'd rather really break away - not use something that's only slightly different. I'd use a mana based system (like perhaps a modified psion) before a slot based one, but the more freeform casting concept of SS really beats both of those choices for me at least. I really, really, don't like slots, but for those who have no problems with slots then I agree that it's definitely worth taking a look at Wheel of Time as well. I've just got hangups.

Plus I haven't decided on the defense bonus concept. I've not given it much thought, really. It does mean that the WoT classes aren't very compatible with the core D&D classes as well as PRCs and classes from other supplements (like the Kalamar Player's Guide or various naval supplements that I'm looking forward to).

From reading all of the SS rules but not yet playing them, another thing that seems apparent is that getting better fortitude saves, more hit points, higher concentration skill, and more spells that you can know intimately (as opposed to having to reference your text, dramatically slowing down casting time), are all very important factors for the power level of a mage in Sovereign Stone. Just looking at how Casting Thresholds scale doesn't seem to tell the full story. I don't think that I'd write off the importance of level so quickly. I'll probably create some test characters soon to see for myself.

I agree that Wheel of Time is very cool and that people should give it a look, but it's not for me.

 

[Stormprince]

I have both the Wheel of Time Core Rulebook, and the Sovereign Stone rulebooks... and indeed, the two magic systems are more closely related to one another than they are to the standard system in the Player's Handbook.

However, as it was pointed out... in WoT, there are still limited spell slots - which I feel really doesn't capture the feel of the novels... you never heard any of them worrying about 'Oh no! I've only got a single spell left in my repertoire right now! CRAP!' Another thing that I really feel is missing is something that does receive a major treatment in Sovereign Stone, and that's the dark side of magic. In WoT, really the only difference between the weaves used by the Black Ajah, and the others, is in how they are used - you don't have them summoning up armies of the undead, or creating twisted creatures like the half-men...while in Sovereign Stone, Void Magic is not only whispered about, it's there in very vivid shades of blackness.

Of course, if you have both books, there's nothing that says you can't mix and match...something that I'm infamous for doing, anyways

Okay, now to be a little bit more fair, I will say that the one thing that I'm torn on, regarding the Sovereign Stone magic system, is that to specialize in more than a single element, you are forced to multi-class. Each Element requires separate levels in Elemental Mage, yet, it does also reinforce the difficulty in learning Elemental Magics that are considered Neutral or Disadvantaged. Depending on your Elemental-Alignment, is what DC you have to make your Fortitude checks against... and once you start getting to higher levels in Elemental Mage, you're really only going to fail your Fortitude checks if you roll a 1...and unless you're a Void Mage, the price for failing a Fortitude check is to take subdual damage, which is a great concept in my mind - mages get tired the more magic they cast, this is something that many, many fantasy novels have reinforced, but you don't really see brought into play in an RPG setting, until now.

Anyways, it's late, I'm tired, and my mind's a bit loopy right now, so I'm gonna head for bed! Chat y'all up later!

Christopher

 

[UD]

Wheel of Time magic is much more powerful than DnD magic anyway.