Opinions on True20

[Greg K]

How? I've read the true 20 quick play rules and con bonus is not calculated into the toughness save.

I don't have the quick start rules, but the full rules state under con that it modifies your "Toughness saving throws, for resisting damage" (true20pdf, p.14).

Edit: I just saw the quick start rules and Nadaka is correct- there is no mention anywhere in the quickstart of con modifying the toughness save so I see why he is mistaken.

 

[jdrakeh]

I will say I think this is a valid criticism of True20 with regard to powers. Not enough to turn me off personally, but valid.

I have had a lot of trouble expressing this in the past, which resulted in several near flamewars here. I apologize for those. It took me a while to put my finger on the specific issue (as stated here) which, in retrospect, really has nothing to do with complexity as I previously asserted.

Rather, this is solely a consistency issue which can lead to slowed game play, though isn't in and of itself complex. Today I realize that I have unfairly characterized True 20 in the past. It really isn't all that complex, just mechanically inconsistent with regard to how individual powers operate in terms of effects.

If this aspect of the system were shored up and brought into line with the core mechanic, I'd be much more enthused about True 20.

 

[jdrakeh]

Personally, I like that Dex is used for all attacks (melee and ranged), and Str is used instead for a damage bonus with melee attacks. I think it is far more elegant and makes more sense than standard d20.

From a Sim standpoint, I liked that about True 20, as well. I agree that it was much more elegant and more sensible than using STR to modify melee to-hit rolls (which, really, makes no sense).

 

[Nadaka]

From a Sim standpoint, I liked that about True 20, as well. I agree that it was much more elegant and more sensible than using STR to modify melee to-hit rolls (which, really, makes no sense).

It actually does make a lot of sense for strength to modify melee attack rolls. More strength means that you can apply more acceleration to an attack, resulting in a faster strike that is harder to avoid and react to. Not only this but it is the same strength enabled acceleration that allows someone to shift the path if his attack to more effectively counter any motion or evasion that a target may engage in. Without that strength ones dexterity and agility are meaningless because they can not be applied.

Bruce Lee could throw a potentially fatal punch from a resting position in less than 1/20th of a second. Most people take at least 1/10th of a second to react to anything. This is not a result of his dexterity. It is a result of his strength allowing him to pour more energy into accelerating his fist.

 

[jdrakeh]

More strength means that you can apply more acceleration to an attack, resulting in a faster strike that is harder to avoid and react to.

While it's true that IRL Speed Strength is defined as work divided by time, where work is defined as force x distance, this has no bearing on accuracy, which is the sole determining factor in whether or not a strike actually connects with a target. You can be crazy strong all day long and lack the coordination to hit anything.

The truth of this can be demonstrated by the fact that not everybody hits their intended target every time that they fire a pistol or rifle -- and the momentum of a bullet is thousands of times that produced by exerting physical strength on an object. Sure, it's really hard to dodge a bullet -- but you don't need to if the shooter lacks the coordination necessary to accurately sight the firearm.

More importantly, however, STR does not have anything to do with speed in the D&D RAW -- this is the sole domain of DEX. So, while STR may have some bearing on the speed with which a blow is dealt in real life, it has absolutely no bearing on that same element in D&D because D&D doesn't mirror real world physics mechanically.

[Edit: I should clarify -- the argument "It makes sense for STR to affect a to-hit roll in D&D because 'hit' means something different in D&D than it does IRL" is a good and valid argument (but, even then, only applicable to D&D as the word "hit" means something different there than it does in True 20). This wasn't the argument that was made, however. The argument made was that being strong IRL bestows coordination -- the reality is that these two things have ZERO bearing on one another IRL.]

 

[jdrakeh]

Wait. . . wait. . . am I actually defending True20 against baseless criticism? Somebody grab Bento quick!

 

[Darrin Drader]

I always considered the STR bonus to hit as a measure of how much power you can put into your strike. Power can overpower skillful defenses. Also, and I would have to check the rules to be sure of this, but I believe that there is a feat that would allow you to swap DEX for STR for the purposes of making a melee attack.

I'd also like to point out that STR is really only a factor when you're fighting with big heavy weapons. True20 was designed just as much for modern and future games as it was for fantasy. Most characters in a modern or future setting would probably choose to fight with a firearm or a weapon that is small enough to require finesse, so it makes sense to me. On the other hand, I could also easily see a houserule making it so that STR can modify your attack roll with certain weapons.

 

[jdrakeh]

I believe that there is a feat that would allow you to swap DEX for STR for the purposes of making a melee attack.

There is a feat in standard d20 that lets you substitute DEX for STR. I'm not sure about the reverse in True 20 (I didn't fool around with it long enough to find out).

 

[The_Gut]

T20

Jdrakeh is right about the powers. I enjoy True20 a lot, and I'm presently running a campaign in it. But the powers section is by far the weakest part of the game. I also use a variant of the damage track. The by the book damage track is fine, but a bit fiddly for my taste.

Other than that, I really, greatly, deeply enjoy True20.

 

[FickleGM]

True20 is battling with Star Wars SAGA Edition for the top spot on my list.

I don't mind the generic classes, but would prefer M&M's classless approach more. I like the armor as toughness. I don't mind the damage system, although the Conviction Point mechanic is what makes it work. I like some of the additional combat options, such as Finesse Attacks, Combined Attacks, Extra Effort, Aiming, etc. I like the skills and feats. I don't like the powers. I don't like the wealth. I don't mind using only a d20, but my players like using their other dice...

I would recommend the game. I don't know that it's my favorite, but it's close.