Our First Game -- What some non-RPG fans Learned that they want to share!

Orcus Porkus

First Post
you guys are geniuses

I'll use your game mat next week, but I don't like the mess with beads flying around like crazy. Players love fooling around with dice and stuff, and I don't think this will work. I love it old school, just writing the HP on the sheet.
Anything wrong with printing out the game mat and use it with pencil and paper?
What do I need to do to use dry erase on them? Does any plastic cover work with those or do I need to buy special stuff? I'm abroad right now, can't try anything out.
Also: I'm assuming you print them out letter size?
Another feedback: There needs to be room at least for the player's name, because at the end I collect all the stuff and store it until the next session. No big deal, I can write it anywhere on the mat.
 

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Kzach

Banned
Banned
I like both versions presented so far, although I'd like to make a couple of suggestions.

Firstly, these sheets are about what the player needs to know, minus all the details, right?

If that's the case, then I'd get rid of Passive Perception & Insight, as only the DM needs to know these values. I'd use the space you have to put in a basic melee and basic ranged attack box.

I'd also add in a section for feats. Feats can have a significant impact on a player's abilities and options in combat, but aren't really suitable for power cards and have no place set aside on these sheets.
 

Goblyns Hoard

First Post
On magic item uses... I'm not sure how to handle this best. Afterall tracking of these could get complicated between gaining them, using them, and idetifying which items have been used. If Action Point markers are removed from the mat when spent (which was my assumption) then the tally between Action Points on the Mat and tapped cards could easily diverge. You'd need to keep a tally of spent Action Points - which would need to be added to the mat to accomplish this. But that wouldn't be transparent to the user. I think it might be worth adding them to the mat - it shouldn't take up a lot of room, most of the time we're talking about a small number of tokens.

Orkus - if you want to go pen and paper - give it a go, let us know how it works and what could be improved. For dry erase - you should just be able to slide them into a clear plastic folder. As to size - mine is built to A4 standard not that strange letter ratio you guys on the other side of the pond use. Not sure what ratio porters are. As to name slot - good call. It should be easy to assign them quickly enought, but why not make it easier.

Kzach - couple of good points there. Might be worth trying to draw up a DM's mat to complement this - Passive Perception and Insight for all of the current group, everyone's standard defences, anything else the DM may want to have at hand without having to ask the player's for the info. Anyone with thoughts on that just drop them in here and I'll see what I can do.

As to Feats that could take up some space. A 30th level character knows 18 feats, plus extras for being human, automatic class feats, etc. I'm not sure what the theoretical maximum is, but we could need space to list in the region of 20-25 feats per character. I think Grandpa's cards cover that better - both through having the feat card themselves and having the space in the power cards to write down your own math. So you could put down all the bonuses affecting a power, as well as the total (if you're so inclined) and that way can include or exclude feat specific things as appropriate. So your eladrin soldier that normally uses his longsword who's currently using an axe cause there's no longsword at hand - just exclude the feat +2 damage note on your power cards.

And on the basic attacks - those are also covered by Grandpa's cards - are they really needed here as well?
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
And on the basic attacks - those are also covered by Grandpa's cards - are they really needed here as well?

Who wants to have 50 cards on the table?

It's not like you couldn't fit space for 20 lines of text on those sheets. They have a lot of redundant space. And anything that reduces how many cards you have to shuffle at the table is a good thing.

The idea is convenience, isn't it?
 

Glimmin

First Post
Might be worth trying to draw up a DM's mat to complement this - Passive Perception and Insight for all of the current group, everyone's standard defences, anything else the DM may want to have at hand without having to ask the player's for the info. Anyone with thoughts on that just drop them in here and I'll see what I can do.

What I've done up to now is have my laptop open while I DM the game with 3 applications open: an Excel sheet containing all the PCs (and relevant NPCs) defenses and passive insight/perceptions, a Word doc where I write down notes for my personal campaign log so I remember what name I gave priest A or tavern B and a firefox page open to dndinsider.com's compendium so I can try to use that for quick reference on rules. I think the most useful is definitely the Excel sheet w/ the defenses and passive skill values. Back in 3E I was constantly asking "what's your armor class?" With the advent of 3 more defenses, I figured it would be important to not have to constantly inquire, so I have that list.
 

The Little Raven

First Post
I wonder, is there any reason to not make "power cards" for your trained skills?

Agreed. I've been working on putting together power cards for every single action listed in the PHB, in order to inspire my players to use things like Bull Rush more often.

Using them myself in my last game, I increased the diversity of actions I performed significantly, and it made the other players take notice and ask to borrow a card or two every other round.
 

Nail

First Post
Who wants to have 50 cards on the table?
YMMV, obviously.

But in this case, you'll only have "spread out" those cards you need at the time. You won't need all your skill cards spread out, your feat cards spread out, etc --> as usually those are situation specific, and easily referenced at that time.

One way or another, you'll need all sort of infor at your finger-tips. How you arrange that is up to the individual. for example, I expect the power gamer in our group to not like these mats, as he wants absolutely everything right in front of him --> for that person, a straight-up PC sheet + PH is the most compact information form.
 


Bodhiwolff

First Post
Just commenting on various things, in no particular order:

- on using writing instead of tokens -- you could do that, of course, but in my opinion it is a step backwards. That was the point of my original post. The act of using tokens, or say poker chips, is something well-learned from the boardgame industry. It really does make a difference. I agree that the beads and cardboard chits seem fiddly, but they're really not bad. And if you absolutely hate them, poker chips are about as clean as you can get, and easily distinguishable by colour in set denominations. When we level up too far to easily fit tokens in the spaces, we're switching to poker chips.

You could simply write the book-keeping stuff out, but I really think there is something interesting to getting rid of the ink-sticks and simplifying the book-keeping. Something visceral. For an old-school gamer like me it was pretty tough to take at first, but the results don't lie.

- On Skill Cards - Grandpa's latest power cards set is CRAZY! Beautiful! Fantastic! Skill cards, inventory cards, every possible feat, just everything under the sun! Race abilities, alignment notes, Combat conditions! The thing is, you don't need to write stuff out, because you can have a little "skill deck" that sits neatly until you need it. Then you haul it out, find your card, then put 'em away again. Okay, okay, maybe I won't use all of 'em, but man, it is nice to have all those options!

- On book-keeping for Feats -- see above about Grandpa's cards

My point is that the less you write out, the less cluttered things will be. Using cards is a pretty snazzy way of tracking 'em.

On Clutter and Spreading Out Cards -- realistically, the only cards that are "spread out" are the ones you need to tap into for powers. The rest you only look at to remind yourself of rules, and those you keep in nice, neat, sorted piles. So besides your mat, you have a Skill Deck, a Combat Deck, a "Character Notes Deck" with your feats, racial cards, and alignment/Diety stuff, an inventory deck (maybe with some prime magic items laid out untapped and ready for use) and then spread out your Power Cards ready for use. Realistically, about the same footprint as spreading out two sheets of paper, side-by-side. Pretty tidy.

On Wet-Erase and Plastic -- different markers and different plastic react differently. I have one set of markers which write beautifully on my "report covers", but which don't seem to write as well on the stuff I have covered with contact-paper. I'm not sure what the difference is. And, of course, since plastic card-sleeves seem to be designed to protect from all forms of liquid attack, they don't seem happy with my attempts to write on them with wet-erase markers. If anybody finds a wet-erase marker/card-sleeve combo (or a dry-erase one, for that matter) then let me know brand names. For Markers, I use Sanford Vis-a-Vis wet-erase Fine Points, and I'm happy with them (except on my little cardsleeves, where I have to write 6 times to get any staying power at all)

I'm amazed at the refinements that have taken place since my first endeavour. I'm amazed at the beautiful work done by the people in this thread, and also by the upgrades done by Grandpa (and others) which must've been an amazingly labour-intensive project. I sent him an e-mail to thank him for his efforts, but I want to thank everybody here for their efforts as well.

'cause you know I'm stealing all your work, right!?
 

grickherder

First Post
I've been using this idea since you posted it. I write the HP rather than use tokens. I find it way, way faster to simply subtract the damage and rewrite it than to count out coins or tokens or whatever. If I did use some sort of token, I'd just use money. 1 cent = 1 hp. Here in the frozen wastes we have coins for $1 and $2 if big HP values are ever needed.

I also have stacks of Grandpa's cards for the different things. I have a "combat stack" which is ordered from basic attacks with each weapon my character has, followed by at will powers, then encounter, daily and so forth. I also have a non combat stacks. A mundane equipment stack and a magical equipment stack. There's no clutter if anyone gives it an ounce of thought.

I like porter235's mats, but prefer more white than grey everywhere, so I made an all white PDF version. It's attached. Remove the .txt as appropriate.
 

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