D&D 5E Out of the Abyss Advice Requested

[zaratan]

This isn't true at all. The prison break is not a fight scene. A level 1, or level 5 party will be slaughtered if they try to do this as a combat on the face of it. This complex in full battle status is a deadly encounter for 4 5th level characters, let alone 4 1st levels.

You didn't get my point, I completly agree with you about prision, isn't to fight the drows, you need to run, and keep running about Underdark. But after 1/3 of advanture, 90% of encounter looks like was planned to lvl 3 players, and you're in 5 or 6 with powerul magic itens. The random encounter start to be pointless as many encounters when you arive in some cities later. And this go on and start to be even worse in second half. Is an advanture that start deadly an go to Dora Advanture later. Of course, if DMs doesn't to intervene.

That's why is a sad true, because if you start at lvl 5, DM will need to change the same number of encounters later than if you start at 1.

 

[Majestic]

Thanks for your comments. Did you feel that the beginning is too hard for a group of 1st level characters? Was this the reason you had them begin in the prison at level 3/4 after running the party through LMoP?

It was more that I'd run a beginning session of my own, then rolled into Lost Mine after that, and figured that it wouldn't make a huge difference running them as slightly experienced characters, rather than beginning ones. They still realized they were seriously outnumbered and lacked the means to fight fairly straight up. About the only way it seriously changed things was that - shortly after they escaped - they were tough enough to set up an ambush of the pursuing Drow. My PCs then wiped out the group pursuing them, with only the main big bad (Ilvara) escaping their wrath. They likely wouldn't have been able to do this, even with their gear, if they'd all been 1st level.

 

[Valdier]

You didn't get my point, I completly agree with you about prision, isn't to fight the drows, you need to run, and keep running about Underdark. But after 1/3 of advanture, 90% of encounter looks like was planned to lvl 3 players, and you're in 5 or 6 with powerul magic itens. The random encounter start to be pointless as many encounters when you arive in some cities later. And this go on and start to be even worse in second half. Is an advanture that start deadly an go to Dora Advanture later. Of course, if DMs doesn't to intervene.

That's why is a sad true, because if you start at lvl 5, DM will need to change the same number of encounters later than if you start at 1.

I'm not sure I understand honestly. Why would 5th level characters have powerful magic items? What encounters would be too easy compared to starting at 1st level specifically? The random ones? The fixed ones? Admittedly it would take a slightly modified set of encounters if the PC's come in higher level, but I'm not sure I understand the issue.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

And yet considering the way some PCs are played, there’s every chance of them trying to brute-force their way out of Velkynvelve. My solution was for the drow to fight to subdue, and then follow up with a torture session on the prisoners. It only took that happening once before they got the hint.

The prison break is not a fight scene. A level 1, or level 5 party will be slaughtered if they try to do this as a combat on the face of it. This complex in full battle status is a deadly encounter for 4 5th level characters, let alone 4 1st levels.

 

[Valdier]

And yet considering the way some PCs are played, there’s every chance of them trying to brute-force their way out of Velkynvelve. My solution was for the drow to fight to subdue, and then follow up with a torture session on the prisoners. It only took that happening once before they got the hint.

Yep, I gave the PC's the narrative (at least one spoke undercommon and elven), that the prisoners weren't meant as a sacrifice to Loth for some reason because the module doesn't really have a reason. Hinting at the Drow needing a sacrifice of a mix of races to get guidance from Loth as to a great disturbance that recently happened (the entire storyline behind the module). For this reason, the characters and prisoners were needed alive, so the drow weren't trying to kill them... but a person can live through a lot...

 

[zaratan]

I'm not sure I understand honestly. Why would 5th level characters have powerful magic items? What encounters would be too easy compared to starting at 1st level specifically? The random ones? The fixed ones? Admittedly it would take a slightly modified set of encounters if the PC's come in higher level, but I'm not sure I understand the issue.

5th lvl was exaggeration. But at 7th you can get a +2 magic sword that gives desadvantage in half of enemies you'll encounter in underdark, and there is more itens and even blessing to all characters (that work like a stackable magic weapon), PCs can forget that last one for one legendary magic item (ruby spell gem).

Seriously, after lvl 5, the encounters start to get too easy. Random encounters are at max of 4/day, most part 2/day, but the chance that happen is 0,81% and 9% respectively. So, most of the time, party will get 1 encounter day, they can burn all resouces in that one. IIRC biggest xp in random encounter at half part is 2300xp (CR6), one player lvl 6 with full resources can handle this.

Any city the players go last, don't have encounters to match lvl 5 to 7 players:
whorlstone tunnels hardest encounter is cultist hideout, the sum of monsters is 1950xp, should be a 3900xp ecounter by the number of enemies, a hard/deadly to 4 lvl 5, but they all will not attack together since beggining. There isn't no other hard encounter to party, unless they do whorlstone tunnels without rest.

Yestabrod in Neverlight Grove is CR 4, how desapoint this can be for 4 lvl 5?
The Feared Pudding king? another CR4, the royal oozes are another CR4 and one CR1/2, and are separated encounters. biggest xp encounter in blingdenstone? a Solo CR6 creature.

Second half of the adventure is even worse, 5 lvl 11 PCs will defeat a CR22+ demon lord "easily", for some demon lords you just need a warlock with repealling blast, in fact.

Seriously, if you want to challenge PCs, DM's will need to change every encounter, change the number of encounters/day or rest recovery. DM will need to change so many things about encounters after 1/3 of the campaing that really doesn't make difference start at lvl 1 or 5.

 

[CydKnight]

Yep, I gave the PC's the narrative (at least one spoke undercommon and elven), that the prisoners weren't meant as a sacrifice to Loth for some reason because the module doesn't really have a reason. Hinting at the Drow needing a sacrifice of a mix of races to get guidance from Loth as to a great disturbance that recently happened (the entire storyline behind the module). For this reason, the characters and prisoners were needed alive, so the drow weren't trying to kill them... but a person can live through a lot...

Yes, I think this is an important point to note. I've read/heard from a few DMs that complain that the Velkynvelve prison is too difficult to escape and will most likely get the characters killed trying but it is really not in the best interest of the Drow prison keepers to kill the characters even if there is an uprising. They are being held prisoner for a reason. This is why the guards have ray of sickness on them to put down such potential uprisings.

 

[CydKnight]

5th lvl was exaggeration. But at 7th you can get a +2 magic sword that gives desadvantage in half of enemies you'll encounter in underdark, and there is more itens and even blessing to all characters (that work like a stackable magic weapon), PCs can forget that last one for one legendary magic item (ruby spell gem).

Seriously, after lvl 5, the encounters start to get too easy. Random encounters are at max of 4/day, most part 2/day, but the chance that happen is 0,81% and 9% respectively. So, most of the time, party will get 1 encounter day, they can burn all resouces in that one. IIRC biggest xp in random encounter at half part is 2300xp (CR6), one player lvl 6 with full resources can handle this.

Any city the players go last, don't have encounters to match lvl 5 to 7 players:
whorlstone tunnels hardest encounter is cultist hideout, the sum of monsters is 1950xp, should be a 3900xp ecounter by the number of enemies, a hard/deadly to 4 lvl 5, but they all will not attack together since beggining. There isn't no other hard encounter to party, unless they do whorlstone tunnels without rest.

Yestabrod in Neverlight Grove is CR 4, how desapoint this can be for 4 lvl 5?
The Feared Pudding king? another CR4, the royal oozes are another CR4 and one CR1/2, and are separated encounters. biggest xp encounter in blingdenstone? a Solo CR6 creature.

Second half of the adventure is even worse, 5 lvl 11 PCs will defeat a CR22+ demon lord "easily", for some demon lords you just need a warlock with repealling blast, in fact.

Seriously, if you want to challenge PCs, DM's will need to change every encounter, change the number of encounters/day or rest recovery. DM will need to change so many things about encounters after 1/3 of the campaing that really doesn't make difference start at lvl 1 or 5.

How many PCs are you running in this game because that is very relevant to your claims. I don't see anything in the first half of the campaign to suggest the statement "any city the players go last, don't have encounters to match lvl 5 to 7 players" unless you are running a party of 8 or more. The Blingenstone Chapter even suggests the characters need to be at least level 7 by the time they reach there.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Five level 11 characters will defeat a CR22+ easily?

I think something is going wrong there.

Sent from my LG-D852 using EN World mobile app

 

[zaratan]

How many PCs are you running in this game because that is very relevant to your claims. I don't see anything in the first half of the campaign to suggest the statement "any city the players go last, don't have encounters to match lvl 5 to 7 players" unless you are running a party of 6 or more. The Blingenstone Chapter even suggests the characters are at least level 7 by the time they reach there.

5, but If you check xp encounter, you'll see none of encounters in Blingenstone are above medium to lvl 5 player, and Blingdenstone is the "hardest" city. Really few parts of first half let you do the recommended 6-8 encounters day too, that's help a lot with the easy part.
The 7th lvl suggestion is after Blingdenstone, before player leave Underdark.

Five level 11 characters will defeat a CR22+ easily?

I think something is going wrong there.

Sent from my LG-D852 using EN World mobile app

Yes, there is something wrong, the demon lords builds, agaist players with magic itens. And if you check old topics about OotA, you'll see how many tables got disappointed about the battles agaist demon lords and how they lack power to justify they CRs (like tarrasque).