D&D 5E Out of the Abyss Advice Requested

[plisnithus8]

We tried, but the drow drove us off. We came back after a rest, and were again driven back. The GM later told us that we would need to be around 5th level to have a reasonable chance of success to defeat the drow guarding the prison. We instead went a different direction and ended up in one of the Underdark towns. Once I calculated how much gold it would take to make a new spellbook, I got the GM's permission to retire my character and make a new one.

But you don't need to defeat the drow, just find a way to get your stuff back.
As s DM, I try to avoid commentary like telling you at what level you'd need to be to defeat something, and if the demons could be a distraction as you escaped, your DM could have easily ssid they came again as you were stealthing back in (maybe you could find snother distraction).
A significant number of drow could be away (looking for escaped prisoners) and/or you bribe a guard, enlist an NPC prisoner, find a drow with a grudge; maybe one of the drow out looking for you decided to carry the spell book with her.

 

[Croesus]

But you don't need to defeat the drow, just find a way to get your stuff back.
As s DM, I try to avoid commentary like telling you at what level you'd need to be to defeat something, and if the demons could be a distraction as you escaped, your DM could have easily ssid they came again as you were stealthing back in (maybe you could find snother distraction).
A significant number of drow could be away (looking for escaped prisoners) and/or you bribe a guard, enlist an NPC prisoner, find a drow with a grudge; maybe one of the drow out looking for you decided to carry the spell book with her.

I think you're missing my point. Our actions were perfectly reasonable, given what we knew. Yet, we didn't succeed. So my wizard was seriously gimped the rest of the way. My point is that leaving something so important to chance is not good module design. It's similar to designing a module where the only way to continue is to find the secret door (random roll, oops, you didn't find it, you can't continue). Or where you have to save a specific NPC, but you let them die in the fight (oops, too bad, you can't stop the evil ritual now).

Of course, this didn't derail the entire module. But it does cause huge problems for anyone playing a wizard. So, 1) write the module so it's basically a deus ex machine that wizards get a spellbook fairly quickly, or 2) recommend that wizards not be used in the beginning, or 3) at the very least, mention that this could be an issue so the GM knows ahead of time. Many of your suggestions require the GM to make up for this gap in the module, but a well-written module wouldn't put the GM in this position in the first place. That's my gripe with the module.

 

[robus]

We tried, but the drow drove us off. We came back after a rest, and were again driven back. The GM later told us that we would need to be around 5th level to have a reasonable chance of success to defeat the drow guarding the prison. We instead went a different direction and ended up in one of the Underdark towns. Once I calculated how much gold it would take to make a new spellbook, I got the GM's permission to retire my character and make a new one.

Come on Croesus - we know you've got plenty of gold, you should have lent some to your character...


(For those needing help with the joke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croesus)

 

[robus]

I think you're missing my point. Our actions were perfectly reasonable, given what we knew. Yet, we didn't succeed. So my wizard was seriously gimped the rest of the way. My point is that leaving something so important to chance is not good module design. It's similar to designing a module where the only way to continue is to find the secret door (random roll, oops, you didn't find it, you can't continue). Or where you have to save a specific NPC, but you let them die in the fight (oops, too bad, you can't stop the evil ritual now).

I think you're being a bit unfair to the module. It set up an initial challenge that didn't work out well for you, but it can't plan for every eventuality. The GM should have found a way for your character to get back in business. Not make the only way for you to get a spellbook was to launch a full scale assault on the drow outpost. You could have easily encountered some crazy wizard in the Underdark that was able to be relieved of a low-level spellbook. The possibilities are endless. The GM should have been more flexible.

 

[Valdier]

I think you're missing my point. Our actions were perfectly reasonable, given what we knew. Yet, we didn't succeed. So my wizard was seriously gimped the rest of the way. My point is that leaving something so important to chance is not good module design. It's similar to designing a module where the only way to continue is to find the secret door (random roll, oops, you didn't find it, you can't continue). Or where you have to save a specific NPC, but you let them die in the fight (oops, too bad, you can't stop the evil ritual now).

Of course, this didn't derail the entire module. But it does cause huge problems for anyone playing a wizard. So, 1) write the module so it's basically a deus ex machine that wizards get a spellbook fairly quickly, or 2) recommend that wizards not be used in the beginning, or 3) at the very least, mention that this could be an issue so the GM knows ahead of time. Many of your suggestions require the GM to make up for this gap in the module, but a well-written module wouldn't put the GM in this position in the first place. That's my gripe with the module.

I think you are missing the point.

This isn't a problem with the module, it's a problem with how your GM ran it and you as players approached it.

Did you attempt to talk to the turn coat? Work on the jealousy angle between the lovers of the head mistress? Invoke a distraction with the other slaves escaping? Use the demon incursion as a distraction? Wait for the Drow to go raiding again?

Anything other than... "attack!"?

 

[robus]

I think you are missing the point.

This isn't a problem with the module, it's a problem with how your GM ran it and you as players approached it.

Did you attempt to talk to the turn coat? Work on the jealousy angle between the lovers of the head mistress? Invoke a distraction with the other slaves escaping? Use the demon incursion as a distraction? Wait for the Drow to go raiding again?

Anything other than... "attack!"?

Exactly. Modules start falling apart as soon as the players start making choices and rolling dice. It's the GMs job to steer the randomness back toward the main thread of the plot. The main thread was for the players to escape, the random bit was they escaped without all their necessary gear. Job #1 for the GM then became equipping the party via some alternate means before too much time passes so that the adventure can proceed.

 

[Croesus]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not this is a failing in the module. We (I ) have beaten this issue enough.

Back to the OP's original concerns, keep in mind that the module doesn't suddenly get easier after the initial escape. Our party was wandering around the Underdark with minimal allies (just those we escaped with), minimal equipment, little idea where we were or how to get to places we hoped would be safe. We kept stumbling into things, even with a ranger specializing in the Underdark, and had several fatalities before we finally got to a relatively safe location. Depending on your players' preferences, you may have to pull your punches early on, or provide substantially more guidance so your players can make informed decisions. Once we reached 5th-6th level, things got much easier and that's when we really started to take control of our fates...well, as much control as a demon invasion allows.

 

[Valdier]

Also check out these two blogs

http://thecampaign20xx.blogspot.com/2015/12/rage-of-demons-guide-to-out-of-abyss.html

https://www.elventower.com/out-of-the-abyss-guide

 

[CydKnight]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not this is a failing in the module. We (I ) have beaten this issue enough.

Back to the OP's original concerns, keep in mind that the module doesn't suddenly get easier after the initial escape. Our party was wandering around the Underdark with minimal allies (just those we escaped with), minimal equipment, little idea where we were or how to get to places we hoped would be safe. We kept stumbling into things, even with a ranger specializing in the Underdark, and had several fatalities before we finally got to a relatively safe location. Depending on your players' preferences, you may have to pull your punches early on, or provide substantially more guidance so your players can make informed decisions. Once we reached 5th-6th level, things got much easier and that's when we really started to take control of our fates...well, as much control as a demon invasion allows.

Thank you for sharing your experience and insight with this campaign. As a DM I want to make sure to avoid such things as I feel this kind of thing you describe is my responsibility. Knowing this possibility exists goes a long way for me to plan for it and hopefully avoid it altogether. I want everyone to have fun and if a player feels they are getting needlessly squeezed by the campaign then it is likely this will lead to no one being happy if it isn't resolved.

 

[UnknownDyson]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not this is a failing in the module. We (I ) have beaten this issue enough.

Back to the OP's original concerns, keep in mind that the module doesn't suddenly get easier after the initial escape. Our party was wandering around the Underdark with minimal allies (just those we escaped with), minimal equipment, little idea where we were or how to get to places we hoped would be safe. We kept stumbling into things, even with a ranger specializing in the Underdark, and had several fatalities before we finally got to a relatively safe location. Depending on your players' preferences, you may have to pull your punches early on, or provide substantially more guidance so your players can make informed decisions. Once we reached 5th-6th level, things got much easier and that's when we really started to take control of our fates...well, as much control as a demon invasion allows.

Maybe Out of Abyss just isn't for you. What you're describing, the wandering around with little equipment in a area of danger is what the adventure is meant to convey. It is a survival horror adventure. If you want to beat things into the ground using minimal strategy and feel powerful, you can play Mine of Phandelver. I will say that not knowing where to go should not happen unless for some reason none of the NPCS escape with you. They are designed to be your guides, if that wasn't happening then that is an omission by the DM.