Paladin one-hitting bosses.

[bjj8383]

So I have this friend, a Paladin. In our game he utilizes all sorts of shenanigans to deal absurdly massive amounts of damage (using mounted charge attacks and a lance.) Here's how he claims to do it. What do you think? (Note: the items in question are in the Magic Item Compendium, Vestments of Divinity.)

"Ok, here is how I do all of the damage that I do on a charge
Weapon damage (1d8) + Smite damage (paladin levels, right now +10) + 1 (magic bonus) +1 (cold stone crystal thing that I bought) +3 (charisma bonus due to divine might feat which sacrifices a turn undead to add charisma modifier to damage) + 3 (magic bonus because of waist vestments) + strength (normally +6 because I wield my lance in two hands and I turn on bull's strength before what looks like any major combat [+4 to strength bringing me to 18 total, +4 modifier x 1.5 because of two hands =6]) + Divine vestment's throat piece (adds paladin levels again, +10) + power attack (I can sacrifice up to 10 and it is doubled because I am wielding it two handed) = maximum (full power attack) of 54+1d8 all x 5 (lance with spirited charge feat + use of lvl 1 swift spell "rhino's rush") + 1d6 (vestments)"

 

[Nezkrul]

He's a 1 trick pony on a horse, what's the problem? Remember there are usually 4 encounters per day, if he gets to rest after every encounter then that's the fault of the DM. Also, his horse is an easyish target, sunder the lance, put up obstacles to keep him from charging (like wall of fire, ice, force, gloom, or stone), his horse is very susceptible to enchantments, his horse can be tripped very easily, he can't help the horse if the horse gets grappled, etc...

 

[ppaladin123]

I am guessing he is a halfling riding a war-dog so that he can continue this strategy in dungeons/enclosed spaces. I wouldn't go out my way to kill his mount or render him totally inefficient but as Nezkrul said, clever use of terrain and more varied monsters can limit this strategy. Honestly it is trivial to completely neuter anybody who isn't a wizard/cleric/druid. He does a lot of damage but he can't bend space-time like his wizard friend. There are plenty of situations that can't be solved with MOAR damage! That said, he obviously put a lot of effort into building this character so I'd let him shine occasionally.

And how did he get the full set of Vestments of the Divinity? If you let your players have whatever they want, they will be hard to challenge. I hate to think what the party wizard/cleric/druid is cooking up....they'll have a trick that powerful for any possible scenario.

 

[bjj8383]

1) Did I say I was the DM? No.

2) Yeahhhh he rides a Drakkensteed.

 

[Nezkrul]

if he's on your side, why did you make this post? I'd be more like "yah, more power to my buddy!"

 

[Blue]

I agree, looks very optimized for one situation. Spend half your time indoors. Looks like you're level 10, put in some flying creatures. Put in some pits, chasms, or other terrain that will prevent the straight line charge. Make it a covered pit and interrupt him after he's used his rhino's rush. Throw a foe with some mirror images. And finally - let him pull off his golden combo some, just not all the time.

As a side note, he does have -10 to hit (completely offsetting his BAB) because of maximum power attack. Moderately good AC should probably ruin his day.

 

[bjj8383]

"if he's on your side, why did you make this post?" Because on the one hand it's cool that, if you go by the official HP for practically any given monster, he can one-hit it, as a ing Paladin, a class that both I an most of my friends use to consider extremely useless, so, you know, seems worthy of conversation. And on the other hand, he outshines pretty much everyone, so if you found some huge flaw in his logic, I'd have fun selfishly and gleefully informing him. Gosh, your imagination is rather limited, wouldn't you say??

"Put in some pits, chasms, or other terrain that will prevent the straight line charge." Yeah. Like I said. Drakkensteed. WINGS.

 

[Nezkrul]

as Blue just said, -10 to hit from power attacking should make him miss since he'll only have about a +7 ish attack roll from what I see. If you thought paladin was useless that means you kinda knew what you were doing when you made your character. Now, if he is outshining you every combat, what are you and the other players playing and maybe we should be helping you get better instead of helping you try to find a flaw in his really well made 1-trick-pony-on-a-drakkensteed (what is a drakkensteed anyways?)

 

[Grogg of the North]

So I have this friend, a Paladin. In our game he utilizes all sorts of shenanigans to deal absurdly massive amounts of damage (using mounted charge attacks and a lance.) Here's how he claims to do it. What do you think? (Note: the items in question are in the Magic Item Compendium, Vestments of Divinity.)

"Ok, here is how I do all of the damage that I do on a charge
Weapon damage (1d8) + Smite damage (paladin levels, right now +10) + 1 (magic bonus) +1 (cold stone crystal thing that I bought) +3 (charisma bonus due to divine might feat which sacrifices a turn undead to add charisma modifier to damage) + 3 (magic bonus because of waist vestments) + strength (normally +6 because I wield my lance in two hands and I turn on bull's strength before what looks like any major combat [+4 to strength bringing me to 18 total, +4 modifier x 1.5 because of two hands =6]) + Divine vestment's throat piece (adds paladin levels again, +10) + power attack (I can sacrifice up to 10 and it is doubled because I am wielding it two handed) = maximum (full power attack) of 54+1d8 all x 5 (lance with spirited charge feat + use of lvl 1 swift spell "rhino's rush") + 1d6 (vestments)"

Some thoughts on his damage and math:

First off, how long does he have to buff himself and what is everyone else doing? Activating the Cord of Favor is a standard action. Casting Bull Strength is a standard action. He's just spent two turns doing nothing but buff. By this time the battle should have been started, the battlefield changed, and stuff gotten in his way. Yea, his mount can fly but if he isn't in the air already then that's more time moving into position and then charging.

His math is wrong on his Badge of Glory. It should be +5 instead of +10. (+1 / 2 levels)

Divine Favor from Cord of Favor should be giving a +2 instead of a +3 since the belt only has a caster level of 6. I base this assertion entirely on checking what heroforge says. =P

I think he's using too many swift actions. Swift action for the Badge of Glory and a swift action for Rhino's Rush.

With the way multipliers work, shouldn't it be x4 instead of x5? Spirited Charge with a lance is x3. Wouldn't Rhino's Rush only make it x4? I may be completely wrong about this.

Also, he should only have the stamina to do all this crazy stuff once per day. A 10th level paladin, able to cast Bull's Strength himself*, has 2 first level spells and 1 second level spell. So burn a spell to cast divine favor and then cast bull's strength and rhino's rush. He's out of spells. And if he has the Pearls of Power to retain all that you need to beat your DM with a bag of dice.

*I'm assuming a wisdom of about 12. Unless it is obscenely higher it won't affect this too much.



Challenging such a character:

The obvious solution is to incapacitate the mount somehow. Yea, he has mounted combat but you can always hit it with AoE and things like magic missile. If he sends it back to the celestial realms he has to wait a day to recall it.

His mount can fly. But what is its maneuverability? Can it hover? Send some other flying creatures at it that have perfect maneuverability. A will o wisp may not be much but if they can keep flying around the mount attacking it, while the paladin is just trying to just look in the right direction....

Illusions. Congrats, you just blew your wad destroying the BBEG's major image. Or mirror image. Or whatever.

Boots of Infinite Ready Actions (Steadfast Boots). Can be a little cheesy but your paladin charges, triggers the ready action from the boots, and gets a nice wallop to the face.

Elusive Target feat. It's made of awesome.

A high AC target. Power attacking for full, while awesome, can bite you in the butt when you miss. Especially if you had to burn turn attempts, item charges, and spells.

Ambush/Ready action. The paladin charges ... right into a web/net/tanglefoot bag/dispel magic/fog cloud/lasso around the neck.

 

[Blue]

"if he's on your side, why did you make this post?" Because on the one hand it's cool that, if you go by the official HP for practically any given monster, he can one-hit it, as a ing Paladin, a class that both I an most of my friends use to consider extremely useless, so, you know, seems worthy of conversation. And on the other hand, he outshines pretty much everyone, so if you found some huge flaw in his logic, I'd have fun selfishly and gleefully informing him. Gosh, your imagination is rather limited, wouldn't you say??

"Put in some pits, chasms, or other terrain that will prevent the straight line charge." Yeah. Like I said. Drakkensteed. WINGS.

You don't have to be rude. I replied to your original post that said nothing about Drakkensteed, or about you not being the DM. Those came in additional replies while I was writing. I'm trying to answer your question and help you out, does it hurt to be polite. Same for the other guy where you say his imagination is limited. Really, you don't give all the information up front and then taunt people trying to respond? I see you only have 3 posts, all in this thread. That's not how we aim to be here on ENworld.

Regardless, still I'll try to help. If your fellow player's character outshines everyone else and you're not having fun, try talking to him. This is a social game, not a competition. Tell him he won D&D, and now can he tune the character so everyone has fun? If that doesn't work, try talking to the DM. Rule Zero trumps any math he wants to come up with.