Paladin / Warlock Faith conflict query

[cbwjm]

Sorry but the gods of Krynn were dicks who murdered millions because a few thousand who followed the Kingpriest had become arrogant and demanding. They then also stole up to "Heaven and Hell" every true cleric walking the world so that worship of them became impossible until they decided to let it return.

They are also the most meddlesome Deities in DnD, mostly because they had novels written with them as characters and that results in close meddling.

Who cares, they still didn't seem to require followers.

 

[cbwjm]

I just read it and quoted it to you. You have to read it all in pari mutuel (all together, not just the parts you want).

I suppose that if you wanted a Paladin that didn't have Priest spells (or ignored that provision), and that didn't turn undead (or ignored that provision), and just gave to the poor (as opposed to the church), and assumed that the other references to the Paladin's faith, or deity are just "fluff" that can be ignored, then sure!

The game is what you make of it; I am just pointing out that it takes a very creative reading of the earlier editions to come away with the impression that Paladins didn't follow a specific god, and were, instead, just general followers of LG-jerkdom.

I think I'd still argue against it. I think that a player reading the 2e PHB who rolled a paladin would be a little surprised when suddenly told they had to choose a god to follow after reading through the class description.

As is, whether or not we agree hardly matters, what does matter is that in 5e, no gods are required for the paladin.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well, I think there would be no arguments about Paladins if we could all just collectively agree to ignore them.

Just in general.

Forever.

In the alternative, kill them. But not humanely.

To quote a popular online DM, “You can certainly try.” =D

 

[neogod22]

The problem with the class is, sure it is written that they can follow an oath, but a god, except they get their powers from a god, and every notable paladin ever listed always say "Paladin of (insert God's name)," not a Paladin of an oath. Which is pretty dumb.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Who cares, they still didn't seem to require followers.

Everyone killed would probably care.

 

[Yunru]

So to all those who go "No, bad! 1e Paladin for life!"
What if you never take your Oath?
A level 2 Paladin's sworn to no-one and nothing.

 

[Wiseblood]

That's a cool analogy to show how it could work. Let me have a go at it:

1) I swear an oath of fealty to the king of the Britons, making me one the paladins who say "ni". It's a noble calling.

2) Then, I strike a pact with the Merchant of Venice. He keeps me supplied with arms for my soldiers, and in exchange I give him my daughter's soul hand. Marrying her off is a price I'm willing to pay for the power he's giving me, even if I'm obligated to keep the son in law happy enough with our deal.

3) Profit. Wait, unlike those blasted gnomes, I actually have a Step 2. Unless my oath to Arthur included a vow to have nothing to do with Venetian Merchants, I'd think he'd be happy I made that pact to strengthen myself and better serve him.

So could you also swear fealty to another king? Or make a pact with another merchant? Since there appears to be no exclusivity clause in your oath or your pact. If you can not, why can't you?
Making a pact to trengthen yourself for service sounds good. Is there anyone who would be off limits for such agreements?

 

[cbwjm]

Everyone killed would probably care.

They're dead and fictional so their opinions don't matter.

 

[neogod22]

So could you also swear fealty to another king? Or make a pact with another merchant? Since there appears to be no exclusivity clause in your oath or your pact. If you can not, why can't you?
Making a pact to trengthen yourself for service sounds good. Is there anyone who would be off limits for such agreements?

Because layolty don't exist with these people right? Lol

 

[dco]

So to all those who go "No, bad! 1e Paladin for life!"
What if you never take your Oath?
A level 2 Paladin's sworn to no-one and nothing.

You can not be a paladin without an oath, at level 3 you swear your final oath.

The problem with the class is, sure it is written that they can follow an oath, but a god, except they get their powers from a god, and every notable paladin ever listed always say "Paladin of (insert God's name)," not a Paladin of an oath. Which is pretty dumb.

The description says things like "holy quest", "sacred mission", "a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice as it does from a god", "seeks absolution from a cleric... or from another paladin of the same order". But then you can be a paladin without a god, order, the oath can be sworn with the dead as the witness, or perhaps the air.
The class allows any option and surely when the power comes only from an oath it gets dumbed down, if a simple oath gives you divine powers all intelligent creatures of the world could have those divine powers or at least lay on hands.