Parting Gifts
Brother Allard: Yolo's a hierophant 2, but I see only one special ability. Is the other still Divine Reach, or am I missing something?
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A heads-up: I'll be out of town Thursday-Monday, so I can't post Fri-Sun. Let's try to get another round in before Thurs.
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A heads-up: I'll be out of town Thursday-Monday, so I can't post Fri-Sun. Let's try to get another round in before Thurs.
Brother Allard
First Post
The other was a metamagic feat.
Jemal
Adventurer
I should probably point out that the main reason Fire Seeds is 10 min/lvl is b/c they're SUPPOSED to be made before battle. It's a standard action to create one(Normal spell), and the attack ISN'T a part of the spell, the spell just creates them, you have to make the attack as part of an attack (or full attack) action. Thus if they were 1 round/lvl, it'd be a two round action for 1 attack.. Unless you change it so that they can all be hurled as part of the spell.
Right - if they're not made before battle you could use them the way Grandfather's been using them in this battle, 1 spell/attack every 2 rounds.
It's still possible to make them before battle at 1 round/level, but harder. Obviously this is a nerf to the spell, as I said was my intention.
The spell offers no save and no SR, and at 20th level does an average of 90 fire damage to a single target, including splash damage. (Maximized, it does 140.) If you prepare enough of them before a battle, an opponent without fire immunity (or perhaps mage's disjuction, etc.) doesn't have a chance. If you give five of the maximized ones to a hasted fighter with quick draw, he inflicts (assuming all touch attacks hit, and none of them crit) 700 damage with a full attack at 100' range. With the 1 round/level nerf this is harder to pull off, but still possible.
(BTW, massive damage rules are in effect. The threshold is 50 damage for medium size or smaller, +10 per size category over medium. Fort DC 15 or die. Big T made his saves.)
Note also that clerics too get access to Fire Seed, but as a 9th level spell (by way of Miracle, no xp cost for imitating a spell) and some clerics can cast Time Stop (or IMC its replacement, Spell Stream). With the right rods, certain clerics can still pull off the 700 damage in one round with no prior preparation. So, my nerf may not be enough.
I haven't even mentioned the bomb version of the spell which with proper preparation could be even more powerful, or that you could use rods to empower them too
A spell that probably should be banned outright is Shapechange, but at this point I'll leave it be in my nerfed version.
My intent is that the game should be more or less balanced between classes and between monsters of the right CR and PCs. And let's just say that I tend to build certain NPCs in a way similar to PCs, so you should assume that if you can use something, you just might have to face that same thing.
It's still possible to make them before battle at 1 round/level, but harder. Obviously this is a nerf to the spell, as I said was my intention.
The spell offers no save and no SR, and at 20th level does an average of 90 fire damage to a single target, including splash damage. (Maximized, it does 140.) If you prepare enough of them before a battle, an opponent without fire immunity (or perhaps mage's disjuction, etc.) doesn't have a chance. If you give five of the maximized ones to a hasted fighter with quick draw, he inflicts (assuming all touch attacks hit, and none of them crit) 700 damage with a full attack at 100' range. With the 1 round/level nerf this is harder to pull off, but still possible.
(BTW, massive damage rules are in effect. The threshold is 50 damage for medium size or smaller, +10 per size category over medium. Fort DC 15 or die. Big T made his saves.)
Note also that clerics too get access to Fire Seed, but as a 9th level spell (by way of Miracle, no xp cost for imitating a spell) and some clerics can cast Time Stop (or IMC its replacement, Spell Stream). With the right rods, certain clerics can still pull off the 700 damage in one round with no prior preparation. So, my nerf may not be enough.
I haven't even mentioned the bomb version of the spell which with proper preparation could be even more powerful, or that you could use rods to empower them too
A spell that probably should be banned outright is Shapechange, but at this point I'll leave it be in my nerfed version.
My intent is that the game should be more or less balanced between classes and between monsters of the right CR and PCs. And let's just say that I tend to build certain NPCs in a way similar to PCs, so you should assume that if you can use something, you just might have to face that same thing.
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Jemal
Adventurer
As Shayuri said, it's an Attack roll, though it doesn't allow SR(I just checked the PHB.)
Avg damage would be 70, not 90(20X3.5). max is 120(20X6). Throwing one is an attack action, so you can't just grab a handful and throw. Plus, even with the 10 min/lvl, it's not a "Start of day" spell, it only lasts 3 hours even at high level, and thus you'd have to know you were getting ready for a fight soon.
on top of that, you're nerfing a spell b/c of what it could do when someone TRIES to break it... Anything can be broken if you try hard enough.
Use Karma. If someone tries to break something, or use it in a cheap manner, repay in kind. When the mage goes "Rod of Maximize - Time stop, Empowered Delayed blast Fireball X 5", he should know that the same thing could happen to him.
BTW, just for fun, here's a nearly unbeatable combo for a cleric (Or practically anyone who can gain access to the spells from staff/scroll/wand/whatever).
check this : Rod of Greater Maximize: Time stop(Trickery domain), Disintegrate(Destruction domain) the ground underneath them, cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere from a wand (centered on self, while levitating/flying beside them), D-door from wand (out of sphere), and then just start filling the sphere with Blade Barrier, etc.. They can't get out at non-epic, so anyone that can't dispel you is dead... Unless you don't physically have enough spells to kill them, in which case your action should be 'run away'.
Avg damage would be 70, not 90(20X3.5). max is 120(20X6). Throwing one is an attack action, so you can't just grab a handful and throw. Plus, even with the 10 min/lvl, it's not a "Start of day" spell, it only lasts 3 hours even at high level, and thus you'd have to know you were getting ready for a fight soon.
on top of that, you're nerfing a spell b/c of what it could do when someone TRIES to break it... Anything can be broken if you try hard enough.
Use Karma. If someone tries to break something, or use it in a cheap manner, repay in kind. When the mage goes "Rod of Maximize - Time stop, Empowered Delayed blast Fireball X 5", he should know that the same thing could happen to him.
BTW, just for fun, here's a nearly unbeatable combo for a cleric (Or practically anyone who can gain access to the spells from staff/scroll/wand/whatever).
check this : Rod of Greater Maximize: Time stop(Trickery domain), Disintegrate(Destruction domain) the ground underneath them, cast Otiluke's Resilient Sphere from a wand (centered on self, while levitating/flying beside them), D-door from wand (out of sphere), and then just start filling the sphere with Blade Barrier, etc.. They can't get out at non-epic, so anyone that can't dispel you is dead... Unless you don't physically have enough spells to kill them, in which case your action should be 'run away'.
Oops. Still 20d6, no SR, no save.
Yes, throwing one is an attack, which is why I mentioned Quick Draw. You could instead just hand them out to every party member (or to a bunch of servants) to throw; still pretty effective despite taking the party's actions.
"Karma" is misguided. You can apply it a bit during character creation, but during play the opposite is true. If you are facing a serious enemy, he will kill you dead unless you kill him dead first.
If you don't use the most effective possible tactics your character would know of and has available to him, that means you are betraying your party. The DM should dock you XP for not playing your character in a realistic manner.
And certainly my NPCs will not hold off on their most effective tactics in the hope that the PCs will go easy on them, except of course in specific situations such as using unarmed attacks instead of weapons in a bar fight, with the understanding that the opponent will do the same thing.
Yes, throwing one is an attack, which is why I mentioned Quick Draw. You could instead just hand them out to every party member (or to a bunch of servants) to throw; still pretty effective despite taking the party's actions.
"Karma" is misguided. You can apply it a bit during character creation, but during play the opposite is true. If you are facing a serious enemy, he will kill you dead unless you kill him dead first.
If you don't use the most effective possible tactics your character would know of and has available to him, that means you are betraying your party. The DM should dock you XP for not playing your character in a realistic manner.
And certainly my NPCs will not hold off on their most effective tactics in the hope that the PCs will go easy on them, except of course in specific situations such as using unarmed attacks instead of weapons in a bar fight, with the understanding that the opponent will do the same thing.
Jemal
Adventurer
kinem said:
Personally, I tend to play cocky 'I don't ALWAYS need to do my best, b/c that would be admitting that you're as good as I am' characters.
As such, I follow the Inigo Montoya school of thought:
Princess Bride said:
mages with 9th level spells should not ALWAYS use said spells. Just b/c you can cast 1 Maximized, Empowered, Quickened Meteor Swarm a day doesn't mean you should use it the first time you fight something.. Save it for when it's needed.
Also, not trying to argue here, just putting in my views - As a 10-minute/lvl duration spell, anyone who's walking around with a bunch of these prepped would have to recast the spell 5-6 times in the average adventuring day to always have them on hand. As a 6th level spell, that would mean maybe having 1 or *maybe* 2 at a time, and if you don't run into something within that span, you've wasted the spell. Extended means it's 7th level but you only need cast it 3 times a day(allowing 2 at a time). Thus, NOT having them ready all the time isn't playing below your potential, it's conserving resources.
Normal, long-term buffs are different b/c they require less expenditure of resources. (only using a single spell slot/day).
Such spells are usually cast when you KNOW something's gonna be happening soon, giving them essentially the same usefulness whether they're 10min/lvl or 1 min/lvl. Anything that gives you at least a couple minute's time can be a pre-combat buff when you know what's coming. The round/lvl just seems a little too much, meaning the spell practically 'must' be cast in combat. 2 rounds worth of actions for 20d6 as a 6th lvl spell just doesn't seem impressive, SR or no.
/shrug. May I suggest 1min/lvl? It prevents the 'walking around with them' but keeps what I personally believe to be the spirit of the spell.. preparing them ahead of time for use when you know a battle is imminent.. (Which is specifically talked about in the second half of the spell)
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