Party just doesn't work

[fba827]

once a couple alternatives have been tossed around and the conversation becomes a repeating cycle, break in as DM and say...
"Okay, since your characters will discuss this for a while in circles, let's take an in-character vote to help this along" (or out of character vote if you prefer for your group).
Point around the table: "In character, would you choose A or B?"
(Don't ever identify any idea as "John's idea vs Jane's idea" that makes it too personal with the potential of popularity votes OR hurt feelings. Instead talk about "the stealth approach through the window vs. the knock on the front door asking to use the washroom."
Choice with the most votes wins. Tie breakers settled with a dice - odds/evens.


Alternatively, anytime they start to hesitate too much, emphasize that game-world-time is passing. So they run the risk of being spotted/attacked/mugged/etc. Though this option has varying effects on different groups

Or stick in some talking animal companion/familiar/squire/etc as an NPC to kick in as a voice of reason whenever the discussion drags on. BUT that just adds more work for you as the DM (it's another NPC to keep track of)

Edit: I did not read most of the posts in the thread, just the first couple and skimmed.

Edit 2: Personally, I have trouble taking initiative in some groups because i don't know if i heard all the facts right and therefore don't want to make a decision that causes a tpk. but at the same time, once it gets stuck in circular discussions then i have to bite the bullet at some point and just say 'okay, let's just try this' or 'okay, let's just vote so that the dm knows what we do...'

 

[Sunderstone]

There might be two issues here.

A) The two active planners take a long time overcomplicating a situation with complex plans that might not need all that planning. If they are roleplaying it all and the whole group is having fun this is ok, if the other players are bored (i.e. stacking minis), then something needs to be done. Some people mentioned the DM saying "________ is frozen with indecision" and "The Thieves Guild guards notice _______ lurking around", these will speed things up but are temporary solutions if they annoy one part of your group too much(the tacticians).

B) The other part of your group is more into the hack and slash style of gaming (just want to roll dice with minimum RPing). Sounds to me like this might also be the case. If the DM and half the group like a little bit more RPing, the hack and slashers are pretty much screwed.

My vote is to talk to your whole group again and find some middle ground that both sides are comfortable with.
Personally, I enjoy the role playing aspect of it all, but grinding every single combat to a tactics discussion would wear me down as well. Dont overcomplicate the smaller combats too much, but take your time with tactics for the vital combats. The DM can nudge the players as to which are the vital ones.

 

[roguerouge]

This is to the players:

The druid and the necromancer should be doing their best to make the other three shine. You have undead minions and billions of summoned animals for a reason, dude and dudette! Have their stats on cards for easy reference, the typical disposable minions (undead and animals) I mean. Use them to make the rogue and fighter better with flanking and protecting their flanks. Use them to form a wall of meat to keep the archer safe.

Everybody pre-roll during other player's turns and write down the attack roll and damage on a piece of scrap paper. This speeds up down time.

Next, have an index card for each spell. Flipping through the book is a big time-waster. You chose the high-maintenance classes, you get the homework. Know your spells cold. (See below.)

The DM: Two players are bored with how slow things are going, so institute a 10 seconds or less policy. The players have to announce what they are doing in ten seconds when it's their turn. If you can't figure it out, you take a delay action until you're ready to go. Once you've declared, take the normal amount of time to resolve the action. But you don't get to change your mind once you choose.

Trust me, it's a lot of fun and it gets the blood pumping.

In terms of planning, you might consider ending sessions before a big infiltration scheme, to allow the players to hash it out over email. Either that, or institute a 10 minutes or less rule for planning.

For the players: include the party in the info gathering sections of your planning. The fighter goes to intimidate to get some information. The ranger tracks. The rogue and ranger scouts. While they do that, you two figure out the plan you want to do.

For the DM: However tempting it might be, do not punish the players for splitting the party at this point. This is sharing the spot light, not splitting the party.

 

[Beginning of the End]

Inside combat, the DM can take initiative by not letting the players dither over what action to take on their turn. Impose a 20 second limit on declaring their action. If they don't declare something, their character is holding their action. Move onto the next character in the initiative order, and check back with them after each action.

I also recommend this article for tips on running successful, fast-paced combats.

Outside of combat, the solution for the dithering has to primarily come from the players. (Although the DM can't go too far wrong by occasionally asking the simple question, "So what are you doing?" Or occasionally rolling some dice and calling for Spot checks if they're in a dangerous situation doing their dithering.)

If the players are having fun, I wouldn't worry too much about their dithering.

If they're complaining, then they're looking for a solution. Suggest that they elect a party leader who can make the final decision on any course of action after hearing everyone's ideas. Or if they don't want a leader, suggest that they do formal debate -- everybody gets a chance to propose an idea; everyone gets a chance to respond to the ideas on the table; and then they take a vote and get on with the game.

 

[MrMyth]

Also, a thought for the DM: If you want players to find creative ways to assault a bandit stronghold or the like, start off by trying to give them some direction in doing so. Prompt them with skill checks - without them specifically asking for it, have them make Spot checks to see that the bandit hideout has a roof entrance, and several nearby buildings can easily be scaled to get onto it. Things like that.

Basically, before presenting them with an encounter, figure out in advance some of the possible options them might have during the scene. If they don't look for them, have them make skill checks to get some of that information anyway, and see if this encourages them to take advantage of it.