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party wants railroading
- Thread starter ffy
- Start date
moxcamel
Explorer
Hmmm...could it be that you've introduced too much role-playing, and their request for more hack and slash is just symptomatic of this problem? Just a thought off the top of my head.
What I'd do is figure out where they're coming from on this request. What is it that they feel they're missing? Do they think they're not getting enough encounters, and thus not leveling fast enough? Are the role playing situations just not that interesting? Are you introducing encounters that don't really let the party use the powers and items that they would like to use more?
Unless you really get to the bottom of this, going almost completely hack and slash runs the risk of getting boring too, and they might just decide that no, this isn't fun either, maybe we just don't like D&D.
What I'd do is figure out where they're coming from on this request. What is it that they feel they're missing? Do they think they're not getting enough encounters, and thus not leveling fast enough? Are the role playing situations just not that interesting? Are you introducing encounters that don't really let the party use the powers and items that they would like to use more?
Unless you really get to the bottom of this, going almost completely hack and slash runs the risk of getting boring too, and they might just decide that no, this isn't fun either, maybe we just don't like D&D.
Adjusting the right dose of elements in the game is probably the hardest job for a DM. You kind of have to hold the player's pulse, see when and where their interest is peaked and when they have that sparkle in their eyes. As a DM, you may want to run a certain kind of game, but it's ultimately up to the players whether to accept and enjoy your methods, or... well... be bored with them.
I find comedy is a good way to lure a combat interested group into a bit of the roleplaying aspects. It might start as a frantic goblin surrendering to the PC's and weaving impossible stories. Some classics like damsels in distress, and stuff that can be easily identified from iconic movies, books, or stories usually also draw some attention. You can describe a race chariot as the millenium falcon of chariots with bits and bobs sticking out from everywhere, and it'll take an A-team effort to get it in top racing condition again. Finding what the players like, and playing to those likes with analogies can go a long way into increasing the entertainment value of non-combat encounters.
As for general railroading, some parties are very indecisive, and when presented a half dozen options, they are more likely to sit and debate and do nothing, so as DM, you have to come up with ways to prod them in one direction or another (i.e. railroad). But there are tricks you can use to make them think they made the decision. Have a couple people make knowledge checks like history or nature, to point something out to them, have someone make an insight check to help them out with understanding enemy motives.
At times the indecision can come from a lack of information, and it's difficult to see this as DM (because you know everything). Just give them stuff they can identify with. You want them to go looking for a missing dwarf, have another dwarf drop the missing dwarf's clan name, which perhaps happens to be of the same clan as a PC. It's still railroading, but you are at least giving the players something a little more to care about, than enter room 113, kill monster, loot treasure, rinse, repeat.
If your getting bored due to running a series of combat encounters is the main problem, I find that a goal other than "kill 'em all" will keep me interested for longer as DM. And it's not easy to come up with such scenarios all the time, so I like the challenge. I introduce some new mechanic in encounters depending on my goals. In a recent boss fight, I had a magical nexus in the area that the PC's and the boss could draw energy from, using skills (arcana, religion, nature, etc), for various enhancements (damage bonuses, temp hit points, resistances, etc.) The boss was summoning dretches out of the nexus. Anyway, whatever the mechanic, I find it enjoyable to bring something new to the table with terrain mechanics or monster mechanics even in a combat heavy game, and create goals other than total enemy annihilation.
I find comedy is a good way to lure a combat interested group into a bit of the roleplaying aspects. It might start as a frantic goblin surrendering to the PC's and weaving impossible stories. Some classics like damsels in distress, and stuff that can be easily identified from iconic movies, books, or stories usually also draw some attention. You can describe a race chariot as the millenium falcon of chariots with bits and bobs sticking out from everywhere, and it'll take an A-team effort to get it in top racing condition again. Finding what the players like, and playing to those likes with analogies can go a long way into increasing the entertainment value of non-combat encounters.
As for general railroading, some parties are very indecisive, and when presented a half dozen options, they are more likely to sit and debate and do nothing, so as DM, you have to come up with ways to prod them in one direction or another (i.e. railroad). But there are tricks you can use to make them think they made the decision. Have a couple people make knowledge checks like history or nature, to point something out to them, have someone make an insight check to help them out with understanding enemy motives.
At times the indecision can come from a lack of information, and it's difficult to see this as DM (because you know everything). Just give them stuff they can identify with. You want them to go looking for a missing dwarf, have another dwarf drop the missing dwarf's clan name, which perhaps happens to be of the same clan as a PC. It's still railroading, but you are at least giving the players something a little more to care about, than enter room 113, kill monster, loot treasure, rinse, repeat.
If your getting bored due to running a series of combat encounters is the main problem, I find that a goal other than "kill 'em all" will keep me interested for longer as DM. And it's not easy to come up with such scenarios all the time, so I like the challenge. I introduce some new mechanic in encounters depending on my goals. In a recent boss fight, I had a magical nexus in the area that the PC's and the boss could draw energy from, using skills (arcana, religion, nature, etc), for various enhancements (damage bonuses, temp hit points, resistances, etc.) The boss was summoning dretches out of the nexus. Anyway, whatever the mechanic, I find it enjoyable to bring something new to the table with terrain mechanics or monster mechanics even in a combat heavy game, and create goals other than total enemy annihilation.
Stumblewyk
Adventurer
On the other hand, it's entirely within the realm of possibility that the OP has a group of players who prefer the hack 'n slash style of gameplay. There's nothing wrong with this, except, as the OP mentioned, it bores him.
What you have to do, ffy, is ask your players exactly what they want out of their game. Find out if they really just want to cleave their way through monsters all day long, or if they're looking for more role playing opportunities. If they say they want to fight lots of baddies and earn XP and treasure, then for your own sake, start introducing interesting NPCs that point them towards lots of baddies to fight. Make these NPCs people they can trust, and rely on for work, and eventually you can maybe steer them into role-playing with these NPCs, and then others as they open up to non-combat encounters in D&D.
Nemesis Destiny
Adventurer
Well, if fights are what they want, why not just give them dungeon-crawl after dungeon-crawl?
Just a series of encounters strung together in rooms and hallways, laden with deadly traps, of course. I hear some groups dig that sort of thing.
If, however, you are not enjoying that approach as DM, perhaps you would do better if you sought a new group to game with?
I mean, if you think they can be brought 'round to your way of thinking, by all means try, or maybe you will find ways to enjoy the endless hack'n'slash. Perhaps a little bit of DM schadenfreude? You may earn a reputation amongst players as a fearsome PC-meatgrinder. It could be fun.
Just a series of encounters strung together in rooms and hallways, laden with deadly traps, of course. I hear some groups dig that sort of thing.
If, however, you are not enjoying that approach as DM, perhaps you would do better if you sought a new group to game with?
I mean, if you think they can be brought 'round to your way of thinking, by all means try, or maybe you will find ways to enjoy the endless hack'n'slash. Perhaps a little bit of DM schadenfreude? You may earn a reputation amongst players as a fearsome PC-meatgrinder. It could be fun.
moxcamel
Explorer
How about asking one or more of them to DM for awhile? Let them see what it's like on the other side of the screen. If they think they have a good idea of what they want, let them run some sessions so they and the rest of the group can try it on for size. It could be that you actually learn something from the guest DM.
And I quite agree. It's no fun role-playing if you're the only one doing it. At the very least, I think they really need to meet you half way on this. It is, after all, a role-playing game.
And I quite agree. It's no fun role-playing if you're the only one doing it. At the very least, I think they really need to meet you half way on this. It is, after all, a role-playing game.
I suggest a compromise. Find as many ways as possible to put the Role Playing in to the Roll Playing. I'll start:
- Arena fight where the party must prove their worth and play to the crowd in order to win. Bonuses for Role Playing during their turn might include +1 to hit, +2 to damage, +1 to AC, etc.
- Have neutral parties that are required to win a fight. The party must RP to get their assistance or face certain death at the hands of a common foe.
- Stick them in a dungeon where they must share stories of their martial exploits to get on the good side of a prison king pin. Failure would lead to gruesome death .... or worse.
Other approaches to catch their interest:
- Make the RP about them, not the NPCs
- Give them fawning NPCs that are awestruck by their physical prowess
- If the PCs don't care about the NPCs you may need to ask why they don't like engaging with your NPCs. It is possible you are not providing things that match their admittedly minimal RP interests.
In closing, PirateCat responded to a question I posed about his creation of a really interesting and unique combat that required role playing as part of a skill challenge. Almost all of his points centered on things he knew the players liked. These included:
- Making fun of his bad guys
- Role Playing (of course this is different for your group but they might rise to the occassion)
- He had no idea what was in the dungeon
The answer was a monster with an ego shield that the players had to take down by insulting him. Does this need to be in your game? Maybe not, but I am guessing the players like to communicate in character at some point during a session. Write down the stuff that sticks out and give them encounters in the future that require or reward that behavior. Carrot beats stick in this case.
- Arena fight where the party must prove their worth and play to the crowd in order to win. Bonuses for Role Playing during their turn might include +1 to hit, +2 to damage, +1 to AC, etc.
- Have neutral parties that are required to win a fight. The party must RP to get their assistance or face certain death at the hands of a common foe.
- Stick them in a dungeon where they must share stories of their martial exploits to get on the good side of a prison king pin. Failure would lead to gruesome death .... or worse.
Other approaches to catch their interest:
- Make the RP about them, not the NPCs
- Give them fawning NPCs that are awestruck by their physical prowess
- If the PCs don't care about the NPCs you may need to ask why they don't like engaging with your NPCs. It is possible you are not providing things that match their admittedly minimal RP interests.
In closing, PirateCat responded to a question I posed about his creation of a really interesting and unique combat that required role playing as part of a skill challenge. Almost all of his points centered on things he knew the players liked. These included:
- Making fun of his bad guys
- Role Playing (of course this is different for your group but they might rise to the occassion)
- He had no idea what was in the dungeon
The answer was a monster with an ego shield that the players had to take down by insulting him. Does this need to be in your game? Maybe not, but I am guessing the players like to communicate in character at some point during a session. Write down the stuff that sticks out and give them encounters in the future that require or reward that behavior. Carrot beats stick in this case.
OnlineDM
Adventurer
It sounds like you at least have some elements of the DMG's Storyteller player type while the players are all Slayers. I can see where that would be problematic.
One option would be to try Gamma World. I think that hack and slash works great in a Gamma World setting. My group is enjoying it as a break from our regular campaign right now. There's some role-playing, but it's mostly goofy in-combat role playing, and that's fine for the game that we're playing.
Just a thought.
One option would be to try Gamma World. I think that hack and slash works great in a Gamma World setting. My group is enjoying it as a break from our regular campaign right now. There's some role-playing, but it's mostly goofy in-combat role playing, and that's fine for the game that we're playing.
Just a thought.
