Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2 Detect Magic & Item ID ?

Henry

Autoexreginated
Read Aura can distinctly ID an item as magical - but you have to target the item beforehand, and it takes 10 minutes.

And now that you mention it, Detect Magic has to get to 4th spell level (so, 7th level) before you start specifically IDing the area a magic item is in.

Boy, they REALLY want to make that hard! :) Perhaps it shouldn’t be quite THAT hard...
 

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Amatiel

Explorer
OK. I hadn't noticed read aura before. Think I understand how it works now. Detect magic allows you to determine if magic is in a certain area, and at lvl 7 you can narrow that down to a 5-ft square. Wooh! LOL

Then you use read aura on everything in the 'area' until you determine the item(s) that are magical.

Then... you can use Arcana or its equivalent to ID the item you have found. ROFL. Holy moly they have not made that easy!
 




Starfox

Hero
A lot of Paizo adventures have treasure tucked away in odd places. Finding this loot is a minigame in itself. Or it ought to be - in almost every case some magic is involved, so a quick Detect Magic bypasses the search. I think the new Detect Magic is to get back to some searching - either New School with die rolls, or Old School where you actually say what you do to look. Both are better than the Detect magic bypass.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
A lot of Paizo adventures have treasure tucked away in odd places. Finding this loot is a minigame in itself. Or it ought to be - in almost every case some magic is involved, so a quick Detect Magic bypasses the search. I think the new Detect Magic is to get back to some searching - either New School with die rolls, or Old School where you actually say what you do to look. Both are better than the Detect magic bypass.
Fair enough, though if you house-rule that any barrier thicker than a piece of cloth will completely block Detect Magic then you still get the search game any time the treasure isn't sitting out in the open.

Once you've found the treasure, however, there really needs to be some functional-here-and-now way of determining which pieces are magical and which aren't. Could be a spell, could be a racial or class feature, whatever.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
this thread was from the playtest

Returning to this subject, don't you feel having unidentified items just waste playing time?

When I GM, if the looted item is a bog-standard item unchanged from the CRB, I just tell them what they have found - no checks necessary.

Also, in many cases I want them to know what the item does. Having the rules prescribe a ten-minute activity and a check that can fail just sucks.

Obviously I can and do houserule this, but there really should have been a mention of this. As the CRB is written, you absolutely cannot understand a magic item without 10 minutes and a successful check, and that's restrictive for certain styles of play.

I realize there needs to be a provision for the case when the item shouldn't be easily revealed. I mean, not having a spell like Analyze Dweomer that players can use to bypass a (cursed) item's defences, is a good thing.
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
If PCs are stopping regularly to Refocus and Tend Wounds, having one of them spend some time to Identify Magic is not much of a cost. It only requires being trained, so the party can coordinate who does what to minimize downtime.

Being able to fail the check is a thing, but one could say that of knowledge checks in general. I’d let PCs use a magic item without identifying it when it made sense (such as when activation is part of another activity, like using an unidentified magical sword to Strike a creature), but I’m inclined to keep the check.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
If PCs are stopping regularly to Refocus and Tend Wounds, having one of them spend some time to Identify Magic is not much of a cost. It only requires being trained, so the party can coordinate who does what to minimize downtime.

Being able to fail the check is a thing, but one could say that of knowledge checks in general. I’d let PCs use a magic item without identifying it when it made sense (such as when activation is part of another activity, like using an unidentified magical sword to Strike a creature), but I’m inclined to keep the check.
Well, not really (and this goes to a core issue I have with PF2).

Either the decision to take ten minutes to recuperate is a meaningful one, and there are consequences for taking it: a risk of wandering monsters, or that the princess gets eaten, or whatever. There is a real cost to taking each 10 minute period, so you want to take as few as possible while still not entering the next fight hobbled by injury.

Or, the decision doesn't matter much, because you have lots of time. Say, one hour here or there doesn't matter much. But in this case - why have all these little rules, with a myriad of check DCs, modifiers, and effects of actions? Why not simplify away all the decision-making and all the die-rolling and all the cluttery administration with a simple "a couple of hours later, you're all back to maximum hit points" since that's what all dem rules lead to anyway, you just save a load of playtime for the exact same net result. In short, instead of spending your time checking skill bonuses, making rolls and adding up healing, you could just... skip all that malarkey and go right back to the adventure.

This is relevant since each time the Cleric says "I need to Treat Wounds before I have time to Identify Magic" you end up in this situation. Either your downtime management matters, in which case it sucks that Divine magic items have a much lower rate of identification (in number of items identified per hour) than, say, Occult, which both the Ranger and the Bard are trained in.

But even if the party had distributed their skill proficiencies differently, there's still something inherently dodgy about "whelp, that's a 2 on the die. Guess we'll have to sit around doing nothing for ten more minutes" (if retries are allowed) or even worse, "whelp, that's a 2 on the die. Guess I'll write down 'mystery object #14 on my character sheet' giving me at least a chance of remembering to check it out again once I have leveled up, even though I am fairly certain it's not worth the trouble".

Or, your downtime doesn't matter, and you'd be a fool to roll the dice instead of just having the GM say "it's a [insert item name and CRB page number here]" and get on with what's actually fun: adventuring!
 

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