Yeah, that's the heroic, epic play we want in our fantasy roleplaying games.
As I said, "failure of design."
Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2E Remaster's Death and Dying rules are brutal.
As I said, "failure of design."
Justice and Rule
Hero
Yeah, this was a widely-misunderstood rule before and they chose the much less popular option. I suspect you'll see most playing it by the old idea of what the rules were, and I'd wager you'll see that eventually become the proper rule given the popularity. I don't think it's something Paizo is going to take a hard stand on.
I don't know if I'd agree that a feat not being good to use under a certain condition (the enemy has actions left), but perfectly fine under another (they just used their third action) is evidence of failure of design.
I agree that's probably what will end up happening. I don't know how PFS play works, but I wonder if they collect feedback somehow through that process to help see what the trends end up being. Then again, I haven't read any of the PFS material so I'm not sure how lethal the encounters in it tends to be. The Abomination Vaults AP I'm running seems to have plenty of severe encounters and even a handful of extreme encounters, but if PFS material is mostly made up of moderate encounters it's probably fine with whatever the dying rules end up being (at least from my experience, YMMV of course).
Something is a "failure of design" if it doesn't achieve its intent. If Paizo means ti make death ever present, it is a success of design. It might not be to your taste, but that's a different thing.
I wasn't referring to the feat.
I was referring to if you get Wounded 1, it's safer to stay down and hide or run away than to get back in the fight. And this buffoonish new rule makes the game actively worse when the designers clearly knew the majority of tables were using the rules as originally published.
I think you missed the full context of what I was saying because it was 100% about the feat and timing of it's use.
If you get hit as an orc with the feat and are brought to 0 HP, there are times you'd definitely want to consider not using your reaction to use the feat under the new rule. If the enemy has 2 actions left, I'm staying down and I'll take my chances with the recovery checks (especially if I know my GM doesn't typically hit downed players). If it used it's third action to put me down or even the second after 2 strikes so the next swing is at -10 MAP, I'll take my chances and use my reaction to get up. Situational with things to consider, like many things. The new rule just makes it a harder choice which is where I disagree it's a failure of design. You just don't like it and that's ok, just use the old rule.
Thomas Shey
Legend
Honestly, in my experience, this is much ado about nothing. I've been in a short campaign, a full (20 levels) campaign, and am 15 levels into another. I've seen Wounded come up in all of that about as many times as I can count on one hand, and it never stuck because either they were evacuated, or healed up.
Its hard for me to see this making PF2e more deadly in a meaningful way unless you have parties that are just not paying attention to each other, and in that case they're more at risk of TPKs than individual death.
Its hard for me to see this making PF2e more deadly in a meaningful way unless you have parties that are just not paying attention to each other, and in that case they're more at risk of TPKs than individual death.
Jahydin
Hero
Good to hear.
My campaign is going pretty slowly (only Lv 4 six months in) and no one has been dropped twice, so if that keeps up I suppose it shouldn't impact us either.
Thomas Shey
Legend
There are people who've had somewhat different experiences (I believe @Retreater has reported some), but again, they also usually seemed to swing toward TPKs.
That's kind of the gig; if everyone is trying to take care of each other, the only way this is likely to happen is if people are fighting things sufficiently above the level the combination of character ability and player skill can handle, and that its just as likely to go bad for the whole group. Whether that's a virtue or not is in the eye of the beholder, but its seemed pretty consistent, not only in the games I've been in but in the reports I've seen elsewhere.
Edit: Also, depending on the specifics of how often you play and for how long, 3 levels in six months may not be that slow.)
