PCs lack of respect for the 'caste' system of your typical fantasy society

[Killer Shrike]

Even in polytheistic cultures, there would tend to be "ruling" gods who stood higher in the heirarchy than the others - Zeus, Jupiter, Odin etc. That was their role, and the role of their devotees (the ruling class) in the society. There is no sense of this in the default D&D "pantheon", which is an incoherent mess designed around a game mechanic (alignments).

And more than that even; in Greyhawk there are multiple human pantheons. The 'default' gods grepped out for 3e are from scattered pantheons, thus adding to the confusion.

Something that's always bugged me - this "Saint" Cuthbert. Of what religion is he a saint? HIS OWN? Talk about redundancy.

I know what you mean and in my Greyhawk Campaigns St Cuthbert has always been simply Cuthbert. However, to shed some light on your question, St Cuthbert was originally a priest of Pelor who was so loved by his constuitency that he ascended to demi-godhood and later full god hood. Thus, he was originally Saint of the Pelorite religion.

 

[S'mon]

Where is the "general direction of the target"?

The direction the fireball or lightning bolt or arrows came from, of course. An individual arrow might have a tiny chance to hit the invisible target, but with hundreds every round there's a good chance IMO of a hit fairly soon.

 

[S'mon]

Actually I disagree with this quote. A more proper way to say this would be that the concept of merit-based rank was not present in History.

In fantasy, things are totally different. I'd say that quite likely, in a true DnD-like world, that society would be chaotic. People with the power of adventurers could easily lead a coup. Thankfully, my players don't think that way, but it would be possible at the higher levels.

One thing to keep in mind, these are not historical peasants, who were in many cases, little better than slaves. These are fantasy heroes, a whole new breed of creature. I could see the peasant NPCs in a campaign world acting exactly as you say, but a PC? No, they're heroes, they're different.

I agree - but in such a world most rulers will be warlords, either ex-adventurers or of comparable power. And those who are not are likely to be replaced. RE Howard's Hyborian Age is a lot like this. So were the early middle ages (certainly pre-12th century, maybe pre-13th).

 

[Metheus]

OK, while the thread has meandered to a PCs vs an army discussion, the idea of general respect for the social structures is still here.

Any "intelligent" PC would not find themselves fighting against an army, or against a king, unless they had land, an army of their own, and a good reason to fight. If groups of high level PCs go around killing armies for no good reason, then expect to find a cold welcome anywhere you go. Why would a blacksmith make you weapons when you've killed his brother? Why would an innkeep let you stay there if there was a good chance he wouldnt have an inn by morning? Even those who serve your characters out of fear would eventually find a way to rebel, either heiring out a higher level party that knew their place in the world, or sabotaging things all the time.

There does seem to be a lack of respect for NPCs or authorities that goes beyond not wanting to bow and defer. Someone brought up Boone or a congressman. Do you think Boone, as your example of an adventurer, would meet the president and say "Hey President Poopyhead, I just killed me 5 bears and I'm taking over the Presidency, taking your daughter, and all of the Treasury or I'll gutpunch you and kill your army"? Do you think that he staked claim to his land and killed anyone that came on it, or that it was given to him by the president?

No matter how powerful you think you are, rudeness is never going to get you far. For those who dont think the US has a class system, would you ever walk up to a Senator, a famous actor/soprts star, or an ultrarich business person and demand something, or be agressively rude to them in a 1-on-1 conversation (shouting stuff at a ballgame/political rally is pretty anonymous). There is a class system, its just been beaten about the head until retarded. Do you think the greatest warriors in the armed forces have a chance of being president because they can kill a lot of people? Sure, I know its not the same as a feudal system, but its still a level of respect that sometimes gets lost when playing D+D. Look at the people who try to get stuff in this world by aggression and fear. No matter how many nukes you have, if you arent playing by the rules of society's game then you're never going to win the Kewpie doll. Raging Uber-PCs would be the terrorists of D+D, and be about as loved and helped by the commoners. Thats a short and lonely existance for a PC. The mercenary that can take out a dragon is still a mercenary, and will be hard-pressed to win the love of any populace but a brutal, chaotic one.

 

[hong]

The direction the fireball or lightning bolt or arrows came from, of course. An individual arrow might have a tiny chance to hit the invisible target, but with hundreds every round there's a good chance IMO of a hit fairly soon.

With a fly spell, the target could be anywhere within a 90' radius sphere of where the arrow/spell came from. That's a lot of sky.

 

[Zappo]

With a fly spell, the target could be anywhere within a 90' radius sphere of where the arrow/spell came from. That's a lot of sky.

Easy. The archers ready an action to fire as soon as they see something (fireball, lightning, arrow, whatever) shooting from nowhere. Since they know the target's position exactly, they can roll to-hit normally, and 1 in 20 will certainly hit, and they just have an additional 50% chance of missing. So, 1 in 40 will hit on average. If there are hundreds of archers, at least one hit is almost guaranteed.