PCs that are too big for their britches...do they live or die?
Andor
First Post
Li Shenron
Legend
This is exactly the reason why I haven't shelled a single buck for at least a decade to watch a Hollywood action/hero movie.
I already know the protagonist will win, I already know the BBEG will die, and I've seen the same special effects (i.e. "boom") a zillion times before.
To me that assumption simply kills the fun and removes the reason for playing such game / watching such movie.
the Jester
Legend
This is VERY MUCH a playstyle thing. In my campaign, the pcs- NOT heroes- definitely do not have any assurance of victory, ever, unless they take the time and effort to ensure it themselves via tactics, setting up the situation to their advantage, etc.
Quickleaf
Legend
[MENTION=52734]Stormonu[/MENTION] and [MENTION=63962]Blackbrrd[/MENTION]
Good examples of PCs who only respect the sword getting the sword.
I recall a barbarian player who'd mouth off to every noble. I wish I'd thought of this during our games:
The King smirks at your flippancy. "How do you put your pants on in the morning?"
The barbarian player is confuse, "Uh, come again?"
The King rises and grasps the jeweled scabbard that bears his long sword, stepping down from the throne. "With those big balls of yours. How do you put your pants on? Draw your blade, you and me, mano-a-mano right here. You grasp the fundamental truth my courtiers do not: All respect is earned at the tip of a sword."
"Clear off, courtiers, give us some room! If you beat me, you can call me whatever you like, and if your insults are really creative I'll even pay you for the good ones. If I beat you, you will use my proper forms of address and be my pissboy whenever you visit court...should your refuse, I will cut off your balls and exile you and your companions." He tosses the scabbard to the side, revealing a wickedly sharp magic weapon, and from his hand-and-a-half grip it looks like he knows his way around a sword.
Of course, the king needs a potent statblock to follow thru on this threat so it's either a close fight or the barbarian gets crushed. Would love to see the look on a Player's face for a DM doing this
Good examples of PCs who only respect the sword getting the sword.
I recall a barbarian player who'd mouth off to every noble. I wish I'd thought of this during our games:
The King smirks at your flippancy. "How do you put your pants on in the morning?"
The barbarian player is confuse, "Uh, come again?"
The King rises and grasps the jeweled scabbard that bears his long sword, stepping down from the throne. "With those big balls of yours. How do you put your pants on? Draw your blade, you and me, mano-a-mano right here. You grasp the fundamental truth my courtiers do not: All respect is earned at the tip of a sword."
"Clear off, courtiers, give us some room! If you beat me, you can call me whatever you like, and if your insults are really creative I'll even pay you for the good ones. If I beat you, you will use my proper forms of address and be my pissboy whenever you visit court...should your refuse, I will cut off your balls and exile you and your companions." He tosses the scabbard to the side, revealing a wickedly sharp magic weapon, and from his hand-and-a-half grip it looks like he knows his way around a sword.
Of course, the king needs a potent statblock to follow thru on this threat so it's either a close fight or the barbarian gets crushed. Would love to see the look on a Player's face for a DM doing this
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Oryan77
Adventurer
Quickleaf;6358074[i said:
Hmm, now I can't wait for one of my players to be disrespectful again. I need to remember to respond with a scenario like that. I don't know why I haven't thought of that before. As always, you never think of the obvious until someone else points it out.
I seem to handle the situation similar to everyone else here. I'm just bored of running my NPCs in those ways (start attacking, send in minions, coming back later for revenge, using spells to shut them up, etc, etc). The duel challenge is one I have not done yet though. That would actually be exciting for my players, even if the smartarse does get a whooping.
I've always had players disrespect the BBEGs. But I'm getting a bit flustered with my current group over a version of this problem that is going in a direction that I'm not used to dealing with as a DM. I enjoy the players, they add a lot of fun to the game, but most of them are new to the group and they are turning the campaign into a much sillier game than I wish it to be. Everyone seems to enjoy the silliness, so I'm hesitant to speak up about it, especially since I've already asked them to tone it down because I didn't want the game to end up with Jar Jar Binks & Roger Rabbit as the star PCs. I guess my point was not taken and they have a different idea about what is slapstick and what is not.
It makes it extremely hard to roleplay NPCs in a serious manner when they act like this. They even disrespect good NPCs with their "humor". I try to respond in a way that makes sense, but it is a struggle for me. There is a running gag going where they insist on some bafoonery every single time they meet a new (important?) friendly NPC. They are not insulting, but think along the lines of how a scene would look if Roger Rabbit was part of the Fellowship and meeting Elrond to discuss what to do with the ring. And now the conversations with any possible bad guy involves silly insults about their looks, or name, or whatever. It's not fitting like Hellboy calling a guy ugly, it's more like a schoolyard kid would do in an immature and dismissive manner.
I really don't want to come up with ways to deal with this every encounter. I'm pretty sure that most of their fun comes from seeing how my NPCs will react to it. Slapstick comedy is also not the type of campaign I'm interested in DMing, but I seem to be the only one at the table that has an issue with it. So I've been trying to suck it up since I feel that players would probably think I'm picking on them if I mention the slapstick issue again. Like I'm being a buzzkill.
Quickleaf
Legend
[MENTION=18701]Oryan77[/MENTION]
Implement "King Ball-cutter" as soon as possible, like next session. And make sure he (or she) is significantly more powerful individually compared to any PC. Better yet, use an NPC authority figure theyre already familiar with who knows the PCs tactics/abilities. If you need a hand building the NPC let us know, ENWorlders like making monsters Run the one-on-one challenge, let the dice fall where they may, fight smart, and be unremittingly BRUTAL.
Heck, you don't even need to wait for one of the players to make some insulting crack, just have them meet the NPC on his home turf and have him bring up some of the insults, as in, "Ah the headstrong adventurers. Tell me, what was it you called me last you were in my throne room? My jester has seem to forgotten the words." And his jester is there pleading with the King not to make him tell the asking what the PCs called the King. If they're the type of players you describe, they're sure to lay into the King with some more creative insults...
If the loudmouth PC doesn't respond with "I submit, your Majesty" or something similar, have the King coup-de-grace on his balls and then behead the PC. He'll then order his knights to burn the body to prevent resurrection, and turn to the rest of the PCs, "Now, can we get back to business, or are there anymore of you who would like to demonstrate a lack of due respect for your King?"
If the PCs decide to attack all out as a party, have very hard opposition prepared with court mages, great weapon knights, crossbowman on the overlooking balcony, maybe a pet dire wolf or bear, plenty of footmen, etc. If the party succeeds and kill the King, they are labeled "Kingslayers" and will be belittled as such wherever they go; and if the King was essentially good and this was all an ego contest, they've destabilized the realm so real evil can enter the picture...maybe alignment changes are appropriate too. If they fail to kill the King, have the King execute the most aggregators foul mouths on the spot, giving the remaining PCs an opportunity to show due respect or be slain and their bodies displayed as a warning.
IOW, if they only respect force, give them the %#€@ hammer of the gods and make sure they never forget it.
Implement "King Ball-cutter" as soon as possible, like next session. And make sure he (or she) is significantly more powerful individually compared to any PC. Better yet, use an NPC authority figure theyre already familiar with who knows the PCs tactics/abilities. If you need a hand building the NPC let us know, ENWorlders like making monsters
Run the one-on-one challenge, let the dice fall where they may, fight smart, and be unremittingly BRUTAL.Heck, you don't even need to wait for one of the players to make some insulting crack, just have them meet the NPC on his home turf and have him bring up some of the insults, as in, "Ah the headstrong adventurers. Tell me, what was it you called me last you were in my throne room? My jester has seem to forgotten the words." And his jester is there pleading with the King not to make him tell the asking what the PCs called the King. If they're the type of players you describe, they're sure to lay into the King with some more creative insults...
If the loudmouth PC doesn't respond with "I submit, your Majesty" or something similar, have the King coup-de-grace on his balls and then behead the PC. He'll then order his knights to burn the body to prevent resurrection, and turn to the rest of the PCs, "Now, can we get back to business, or are there anymore of you who would like to demonstrate a lack of due respect for your King?"
If the PCs decide to attack all out as a party, have very hard opposition prepared with court mages, great weapon knights, crossbowman on the overlooking balcony, maybe a pet dire wolf or bear, plenty of footmen, etc. If the party succeeds and kill the King, they are labeled "Kingslayers" and will be belittled as such wherever they go; and if the King was essentially good and this was all an ego contest, they've destabilized the realm so real evil can enter the picture...maybe alignment changes are appropriate too. If they fail to kill the King, have the King execute the most aggregators foul mouths on the spot, giving the remaining PCs an opportunity to show due respect or be slain and their bodies displayed as a warning.
IOW, if they only respect force, give them the %#€@ hammer of the gods and make sure they never forget it.
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Alarian
First Post
I had a campaign where this happened, killing them wouldn't have taught them a lesson (well it will teach the people a lesson but not the PC's). In my campaign, the BBEG basically kicked their asses and then bent them over and branded a horses ass on the butts of the players that had been disrespectful to him. Once he was done mocking them, he sent them on their way. None was too happy about it, but they also knew there was nothing they could do about it. They left with their tails between their legs feeling humiliated vowing revenge (but not to his face!). It was a good lesson in humility. It took several years of adventuring before they were able to get the brands removed (they were both magical as well as physical brands). I can remember the players that had kept their mouths shut being sooo happy they had done so.
An interesting element to consider regarding situations like this is: where does power lie? In a milieu that at least nods toward "realism" power lies in political structures. The king is powerful because the barons follow him because he's powerful (with some Divine Right thrown in). There is no need for the king to be a high level badass because the ability to win battles is single combat is not the defining factor of civil authority. If into this milieu steps Conan, who comes from a place where you only have what you can hold on to, you have a conflict between traditional power and, for lack of a better term, player character power. The way this conflict was resolved in the Conan stories was, of course, that deposed and threatened leaders sought aid from dark powers to stop Conan.
So, consider allowing the PCs to insult and even slap around the authorities. But remember, those authorities have nothing if not wealth with which to pay strange sorcerers to cast hexes and summon monsters from beyond the pale.
So, consider allowing the PCs to insult and even slap around the authorities. But remember, those authorities have nothing if not wealth with which to pay strange sorcerers to cast hexes and summon monsters from beyond the pale.
Psikerlord#
Explorer
It think you have to go with the flow. In many cases I've found the players will let you monologue as part of the "social contract" of playing DnD. In other cases they want to just shoot the guy already! If it's shoot the guy, use his turns to rattle off bits of info that you wanted to get out in the monologue, instead. No point sweating it.
