Per day or per session?

[DonTadow]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sure just like everyone else I can't wait to see how the rules actually handle this new mechanic. Until then though, I'll remain skeptical that that any resource that gets replenished per day, or any in game time, will help with the combat, rest for a day, repeat syndrome. Of course, DMs can do their best to disuade these issues, but I'm hoping that new rules might help as well.

Perhaps "per session" is not the best way to go, or maybe not the best descriptor. Would "per adventure" be better? This might allow an adventure publisher or the DM themselves great latitude in defining the terms?

Another idea would be to have the characters kick butt powers have certain prerequisites, defined circumstances, or prolonged consequences. The current Cleave feat would fall into this kind of definition. The 4e desciption of the dragon combat where the dragon gets to use their breath weapon after falling below half hit points would be another. Or something like an ability "Incredibly Powerful Power Attack" which could automatically do x100 damage, but the weapon used is destroyed might be another. Is that too Final Fantasy-ish?

Sounds cool, but my last two d and d games had a lot of final fantasy flavor

 

[Jer]

It seems to me that the new at will, per encounter, per day dynamic is a little flawed, if what we heard so far it true. As I understand it the dynamic is supposed to alleviate some the combat, rest for a day, and repeat situations. However, with most if not all character classes having relatively powerful "per day" spells/maneuvers, it seems to me that instead of lessening the effect it may exacerbate it.

While it might be a bit odd, wouldn't "per gaming session" abilities be more applicable. Instead of the characters resting a day to get back their kick butt powers, the players would actually have to do the camping. Thoughts?

Meh. First of all, I'm not sure how adding per encounter abilities and keeping "per day" abilities exacerbates the fight-rest-repeat cycle - if it doesn't kill the cycle it should be at worst "cycle neutral" and not really affect it at all.

I think if they balance of "per encounter" and "per day" abilities right, it could be a real asset to the game. If the "per day" abilities are all things that you're going to only use once or twice in a given adventure anyway, keeping them per day won't give you incentive to stop and regain them at all.

For example, suppose the wizard has spells such that he can prepare and cast X spells per day, but he also has offensive and defensive magics usable "per encounter". If the "prepared" spells are spells like Alarm, Magic Aura, Disguise Self, Arcane Lock, Knock, Detect Thoughts, Leomund's Tiny Hut, and other useful spells that aren't gamestoppers when you don't have another one to fire off right away, then play isn't going to slow down as folks rest. And if the wizard can throw a number of "Eldritch Bolts" and throw up a few "Mystic Shields" during any combat he's in, his player isn't going to be complaining that the party needs to stop and rest because he's all out of magic and isn't having fun in the combats.

My guess is that the most impact will come with the cleric and other healing classes. We've already seen an example where the cleric gets some kind of ability to heal another character after doing damage in combat - I imagine that will be a "per encounter" ability. The cleric could also have access to spells usable outside of combat to do more "full healing" - disease curing, poison neutralization, more traditional "cure" spells, etc - for when the combat is over and everyone needs to heal up. Those would be the "per day" abilities, and yes, when those are used up, you'd still stop and rest like in any other edition of D&D. My hope would be that you'd be able to get through MORE encounters in a given "day" before needing to stop and rest up - not that this would eliminate the dynamic of "needing to rest" entirely.

 

[JDJblatherings]

"per session" is an awful idea. I've had sessions span months. Sure the per day activities were pretty sparse during those sessions but they came up.
Scrolls are close enough to "per session" for me.

 

[Psion]

"per session" is an awful idea. I've had sessions span months.

That's a REAL strange definition of "session".

 

[demadog]

For example, suppose the wizard has spells such that he can prepare and cast X spells per day, but he also has offensive and defensive magics usable "per encounter". If the "prepared" spells are spells like Alarm, Magic Aura, Disguise Self, Arcane Lock, Knock, Detect Thoughts, Leomund's Tiny Hut, and other useful spells that aren't gamestoppers when you don't have another one to fire off right away, then play isn't going to slow down as folks rest. And if the wizard can throw a number of "Eldritch Bolts" and throw up a few "Mystic Shields" during any combat he's in, his player isn't going to be complaining that the party needs to stop and rest because he's all out of magic and isn't having fun in the combats.

I agree with what you are saying, but thats generally the way the 3e games I play in run already. Spellcasters dont mind losing a few lower level spells each combat, but are reticent to use their higher levels, or when they do they start itching to rest. Now, in 4e it seems that all classes may have the equivilent of those higher level spells, so perhaps the itch maybe even more prevelent.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

My issue with per session is what happens when the party is having encounters during several days of overland travel? "Oh, sorry, you used that spell four encounters ago in this same session. I know that you have travelled another five days and rested each night since then, but you can't recover that power until we stop playing."

If they create a system based on real-time instead of in-game time, that would be the first thing I would house rule.

 

[demadog]

Thinking about this a little more, I realize that some of my concern may stem from the way the mechanic has been described so far as at will, per encounter, per day. The first two descriptors are somwhat metagame concepts, where the last is solid an in-game time. The comments against "per session" seem to revolve around the fact that "sessions" could vary widely between games and adventures. However, it seems that "per encounter" can be just as varied. The games I play in most encounters last 5-7 rounds, however, we certainly have quite a few that last fewer or much much longer. What exactly will define "an encounter"? Perhaps resting one-minute, two? Can some characters chase while others rest to recoupe their per encounter abilities?

My hope is that the wording, whichever way it turns out, remains consistant. It seems to me that at will, per encounter, per adventure keeps everything metagamey, where something like per round, per 10 rounds, per day would keep everying in-gamey.

More thoughts?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Perhaps resting one-minute, two?

That's the sort of thing I've been assuming, and even if the game doesn't include that mechanically, it's how I'll justify it "in character." It's not that you can only perform the action 1/[time period modeled by an encounter], it's that it takes just a few minutes to recharge/recover/regain your breath. Not long enough to matter in the grand scheme of things, but long enough that you can't really do it in the midst of battle.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That's a REAL strange definition of "session".

I'd imagine he means "Months of game time."

So, you can use cool ability X once per hour or once per year, depending on the time scale of the session. That might twig some SoD sensors.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That's the sort of thing I've been assuming, ...

SW Saga Edition Force Powers, for example, are Per Encounter Resources. They come back with a minute of rest.

One could probably spend 10 rounds' worth of actions "resting" and get them back in combat, but why would you want to when there are better things to be doing and faster ways to get back the powers you need? (Note that there are actually quite a few ways other than resting to get your Force Powers back when you need them: talents, spending Force Points, rolling a natural 20 on a Use the Force skill check, etc.).