"Per Day", refresh timing?

[LeapingShark]

What time does "per day" refresh, for abilities and powers such as turn undead, rage, sorceror spells, X-uses-per-day magic items, etc? I kinda assumed it was overnight, like 4 a.m., but what about if PCs are awake all night on a regular basis? For example overnight watch shifts. What about a planar setting?

If the refresh occurs at regular 24 hour intervals throughout their lifetime, could intelligent PCs use trial and error tests to figure out the exact timing of the refresh? Could they plan the starting time of an expedition so that their abilities will refresh shortly after they begin?

 

[Rkhet]

For spell-like, Su and Ex abilities with x times per day, it actually means 'x times in any 24 hour period'. Check the SRD for details.

Clerics and other divine casters get their spells back at a certain time each day, chosen by the cleric in question. But any spells cast within the last eight hours count against their daily spells.

Arcane casters get their spells back after eight hours of rest (though not necessarily sleep). They are subject to the eight-hour rule also.

 

[LeapingShark]

Sorcerors have spells listed as "spells per day". But there are three 8 hour periods in a day. Does that mean he can plan a schedule to be able to cast 2x his normal spells on alternate days?

Day 1-
Morning period: can use all spells
Afternoon period: rest 8 hours
Evening period: can use all spells
(that was double the amount listed in the PHB chart)
Day 2-
Morning period: rest 8 hours
Afternoon period: can use all spells
Evening period: rest 8 hours
(normal spell load)
Day 3-
Morning period: can use all spells
Afternoon period: rest 8 hours
Evening period: can use all spells
(double the PHB chart again)
etc-

 

[LeapingShark]

----"For spell-like, Su and Ex abilities with x times per day, it actually means 'x times in any 24 hour period'. Check the SRD for details."----

Spells cast in the previous 8 hour period will count against the new day's quota. What about wondrous item magic or monster Su/Ex abilities, do they have that same restriction?

Let's say SuperDwarf can shoot lasers out of his eyes 5x per day (either natural Su/Ex ability or perhaps magic lenses). Could he time the beginning and end of this 24 period to allow him to shoot 9x on his next adventure? He decides that his party is going to enter the Creepy Dungeon tomorrow just after sunset. So today, he sets the plan in motion. He shoots 1 laser out his eyes about 30 minutes after sunset. Tomorrow, he enters the Creepy Dungeon at sunset, about 23.5 hours after the 24 hour period started. He shoots the remaining 4 laser beams at the first couple of encounters, then a few minutes later he shoots 5 more laser beams. That's 9.

 

[Thanee]

You can only cast your alotment of spells once per day. Same with daily special abilities.

There are basically two options:

1) 24h must pass between refreshing your spell slots
2) during a single day midnight to midnight you can refresh your spells only once

I usually use number 2), because it's simpler, and with the 8h recent casting limit, also works pretty well.

For special abilities it would probably be more like this:

1) each charge is useable again 24h after it has been used up
2) during a single day midnight to midnight you can use your special abilities only as often as the number of daily uses. (Optional: There is still a 'recharge time' of 8h for each use in addition to that, similar to the recent casting limit for spells.)

Bye
Thanee

 

[Goolpsy]

theres several ways to aproach this, i prefer the way Thanee 's doing it. But you could say, for the dwarft etc, that 24 hours have to pass for the certain use to resotre i.e. he shoots laser several tiems through out the day noted by hours count 1 through 24... so it could look like this: 2-5-8-17-23 this mean that when he reach 2 *again* he will have 1 use ready, and when he reach 5 the 2nd will be ready..

Those ready can of course be used again..


btw, I might actually allow the sleep, cast ,sleep cast within a single day...
as the *Day* kindof ends when the characters sleep...

i would still prefer the 24-hours approach though..

 

[LeapingShark]

"---during a single day midnight to midnight you can refresh your spells only once--"

Ya that midnight to midnight thing can be wierd. Once the players recognize that midnight is the cutoff, they could plan to wait until 23:30 to enter the dungeon, activate all of the X-per-day magic items and special abilities for a half hour, then get a full refresh at 00:01, and continue activating from there.

And from the perspective of the population inside the gameworld; over years of practice, trial, and error, wouldn't a wizard notice this cut-off time and try to capitalize on it somehow?

"---hours count 1 through 24... so it could look like this: 2-5-8-17-23 this mean that when he reach 2 *again* he will have 1 use ready---"

That's a good idea that would solve it I think. Though if there were alot of X-per-day things in the party, it would be a complete nightmare to do the bookkeeping.

 

[Thanee]

"---during a single day midnight to midnight you can refresh your spells only once--"

Ya that midnight to midnight thing can be wierd. Once the players recognize that midnight is the cutoff, they could plan to wait until 23:30 to enter the dungeon, activate all of the X-per-day magic items and special abilities for a half hour, then get a full refresh at 00:01, and continue activating from there.

And from the perspective of the population inside the gameworld; over years of practice, trial, and error, wouldn't a wizard notice this cut-off time and try to capitalize on it somehow?

That's where the recent casting limit comes into play...

As I said, if using this option of daily uses, I would also apply it to magic items and other abilities.

If you don't like that, I would rather go for the 24h recharge time then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[LeapingShark]

Ya okay gotcha, the 8hr recent use limit is a good rule of thumb for items and Ex/Su abilites. Thanks, that helps.

Interestingly, just like the sorceror, under the midnight-to-midnight option with an 8 hour recent use limit, a player can still plan it out to use 2x his daily item charges on every alternate day. Same example:

Day 1-
Use all charges 23:00-24:00, recharge before 24:00
Day 2-
use all charges starting 08:00 or later, recharge at your convenience, use all charges again before 16:00
Day 3-
recharge at 24:01, use all charges again after 24:01

See, only one recharge per day, yet Day 2 had double the charges!
In fact, I used all of the item's charges 4x the daily limit, all inside a period of one day (24.1 hours)! Wierd.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

A couple additions

I was not able to find information on the uses per day, but to extrapolate from the below:

A specific time is required to reset a 'per day' allotment. That time is either set {divine} or limited {needs 8 hrs rest before hand}. Both limit regaining uses during the last 8 hours.

As magic items don't 'rest', I would suggest they fall into the set time category. Items reset time could be set at creation. Dawn, signifying rebirth, new starts, and all sorts of related stuff, would be a good 'normal' time for items to reset.
Ability reset times should be at some meterologicaly identifiable event. Midnight it not obvious by observation. Dawn would be, IMHO, a better choice.

Both items and abilities per day would be limited by the 8 hour clause.

I would go with this as its using the same mechanics for similar uses, and you dont have to track every use throught the entire day. It also makes for a bit more of a planning problem.

Interesting side note.. I learned something! Divine casters dont need 8 hours of 'rest', but only need to stop each day at the proper time. Cool. I can envision issues in my group {2 Druids, 2 Ranger} if they select different times for thier meditation and prayer

A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, just as a wizard does. However, a divine spellcaster does not require a period of rest to prepare spells. Instead, the character chooses a particular part of the day to pray and receive spells. The time is usually associated with some daily event. If some event prevents a character from praying at the proper time, he must do so as soon as possible. If the character does not stop to pray for spells at the first opportunity, he must wait until the next day to prepare spells.

The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour)

As with arcane spells, at the time of preparation any spells cast within the previous 8 hours count against the number of spells that can be prepared.

Must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing.

To prepare any spell, a wizard must have enough peace, quiet, and comfort to allow for proper concentration. The wizard’s surroundings need not be luxurious, but they must be free from overt distractions. Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration, as does any injury or failed saving throw the character might experience while studying. Wizards also must have access to their spellbooks to study from and sufficient light to read them by.