"Per Day", refresh timing?

[ARandomGod]

There are, as meantioned above, a few different ways of handling this.

I don't like the midnight plan, because players then ask when midnight is... Although for special abilities of monsters midnight might be a good plan, and yes, have them plan to attack a couple of minutes before midnight in order to get twice their abilities.

In fact, I think that's so awesome I'm going to use it sometime.

But I digress. For humanoids not specifically aligned to an NPC power (IE all PC's), the refresh is at dawn. I do make arcane casters rest for 8 hours before getting the refresh, but that refresh isn't available until dawn. They can rest, wake up at dawn fully rested and refresh then, or they can stay up till dawn, sleep for 8, and then refresh.

Anything that doesn't require the rest simply refreshes at dawn. This is why human armies often attack near dawn. You time it for when the light appears, use up all your per day allotment before actual sunrise, and it refreshes with the new day.

 

[apesamongus]

For spell-like, Su and Ex abilities with x times per day, it actually means 'x times in any 24 hour period'. Check the SRD for details.

Is that actually true?

I like it conceptually, but it looks like it could be a bookkeeping hastle.

 

[werk]

There are basically two options:
1) 24h must pass between refreshing your spell slots
2) during a single day midnight to midnight you can refresh your spells only once

Concur. I use 1 for arcane, 2 for divine (tho not necesarily midnight). I treat specials as divine, since it is a born-in ability.

 

[Ranes]

I thought this reference, from one of Skip's articles on the WotC web site (Using Magic Items, part 3), might be of interest.

Uses Per Day: Other items work only a certain number of times each day; for example, most rods fall into this category. The rules don't bother defining a "day" for you, and most of us can figure that out on our own. If it ever becomes important, treat a "day" as any contiguous period of 24 hours. There is no set "recharge" time for a magic item. Instead, the item functions a set number of times in any given period of 24 hours. For example, a rod of enemy detection works three times a day. You cannot activate the rod three times starting at 11 PM one day, then activate it three more times starting 2 hours later (at 1 AM the next day). Instead, you can activate the rod up to three times during any period of 24 consecutive hours. If you activate the rod at 11 PM on a given day, you can activate it only twice more during the following 24 hours. Let's say you activate the rod again at 1 AM the next day and again at 7 AM that same day. You have exhausted your daily limit of activating the rod ability at 7 AM. The earliest you can activate the rod again is 11 PM on the second day, when you can activate the rod only once (because you already have activated the rod twice during the preceding 24 hours). If you don't use the rod at all after 7 AM the second day, the earliest that you will have three activations available again will be 7 AM on the third day.

Once you exhaust an item's daily use limit, the item remains magical, it just won't function for awhile.

Use Limits for Other Time Periods: The foregoing applies to other items that have use cycles longer than a day. For example, if an item works only a few times a week, the use limit applies to any contiguous period of seven days (even if your game world doesn't use 7-day weeks).

Elapsed Time Limits: A few items work only for a certain total amount of time each day. For example, boots of speed work a maximum of 10 rounds each day. In most cases, the time you use such an item need not be continuous. For example, you can activate or deactivate boots of speed as many times as you like in a day, so long as the boots aren't activated for more than 10 rounds during one day (see the notes under Uses Per Day for a definition of a day). Such items are almost always command activated and it takes a standard action to activate or deactivate them (unless you simply allow the time limit on the item to run out).

 

[Thanee]

Yep, what Skip says is my option 1) (the 24h "recharge time") pretty much.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Interestingly, just like the sorceror, under the midnight-to-midnight option with an 8 hour recent use limit, a player can still plan it out to use 2x his daily item charges on every alternate day.

Not really...

Same example:

Day 1-
Use all charges 23:00-24:00, recharge before 24:00

Not sure, what you mean here, but you cannot "recharge" them before 7:00-8:00 on the next day, because of the recent use limit (which is assumed to be applied here).

Day 2-
use all charges starting 08:00 or later, recharge at your convenience, use all charges again before 16:00

Nope! You have already used the charges inside this midnight-midnight time period, you cannot use them twice on the same day! So, while the recent use limit is fulfulled at 16:00, the midnight-midnight limit is not, the abilities would first be useable again right after midnight on the next day.

Day 3-
recharge at 24:01, use all charges again after 24:01

Yep, but this is only the third set of uses (see above).

See, only one recharge per day, yet Day 2 had double the charges!
In fact, I used all of the item's charges 4x the daily limit, all inside a period of one day (24.1 hours)! Wierd.

Nope, you just did it wrong.

Two rules, both have to be fulfilled:

1) You cannot use the ability more than the given daily limit within one day (midnight-midnight).

2) If you have used a daily charge within the last 8h, you cannot use it, until 8h have passed, since it was used. This is figured seperately for each charge.

For example, you have 3/day uses (daily charges). You used one at 11:00, one at 21:00 and one at 23:00. It's now 03:00 on the following day. You could use the ability only once, because the other two uses still suffer from the recent use limit (until 05:00 and 07:00).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Arnwyn]

I like it conceptually, but it looks like it could be a bookkeeping hastle.

And indeed it as, as shown from Skip's article. Ouch! (Especially considering abilities like the Paladin's lay on hands. Brutal.)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Recent Use..

If you have used a daily charge within the last 8h, you cannot use it, until 8h have passed, since it was used. This is figured seperately for each charge.

I read this as:

With a time set recharge, such as midnight, you reset the max charges - number of charges used in the last 8 hours.

So, if you have a 5 per day usage and spend 2 charges at 2300, you reset at 2400 and have 3 charges left for the day.

In this, the wizard has an advantage in that they can change the reset time set to a more convienant time {with resting 8 hrs}. The Cleric also has an advantage in that an encounter right before the reset time wont completely blow away the new days spells.

If you are reading it as you regain the use 24 hrs after spending the charge.. that can get into some serious book-keeping!

 

[Thanee]

I think you are mixing a few things together here...

I read this as:

With a time set recharge, such as midnight, you reset the max charges - number of charges used in the last 8 hours.

So, if you have a 5 per day usage and spend 2 charges at 2300, you reset at 2400 and have 3 charges left for the day.

No, you have always 5 "charges" (uses) per day.

In addition, you cannot use a specific "charge", if you have used it within the last 8h.

So for every charge basically you have two things to check...
1) Has it been used during this day (measured from midnight to midnight as normal) already, then it cannot be used.
2) Has it been used within the last 8h, then it cannot be used yet (but later on the day).

Otherwise it can be used.

This is how spellcasting works (though "day" could also be a dynamic 24h period, starting at the last time you refreshed spell slots).

In this, the wizard has an advantage in that they can change the reset time set to a more convienant time {with resting 8 hrs}. The Cleric also has an advantage in that an encounter right before the reset time wont completely blow away the new days spells.

A wizard only needs to rest one hour longer to then be able to regain spells, if the rest was interrupted.

If you are reading it as you regain the use 24 hrs after spending the charge.. that can get into some serious book-keeping!

Yeah, that is the other option (see my first post here). I do not recommend it, because it's more of a hassle. The other one (with the 8h recent casting/use limit) seems more complicated on paper, but is much more easy to handle in practice.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I dislike the "continuous 24 hour period" idea, because I dislike the idea of needing to keep track of the hour I use each charge of a special ability (say, Smite Evil) or spell. So I tend to go with recharging once per day, at a certain time that is particular to the wielder. A paladin of Pelor might have his Smite Evil recharge at dawn. A wizard might recharge at midnight (though I allow non-devoted casters to choose their time, normally.)

Does this mean that a player could choose to adventure at 11pm, use all his smites, then use them again at 1am? Sure, if I had players that were into that kind of cheese. Luckily I don't. If I did, I'd probably have to rethink my approach.