Pixie in heavy armor: Penalty to fly speed?

[chitzk0i]

I think the technicality is the answer. The compendium defines speed as "The distance (in squares) that a creature can move using the walk action." and says armor "imposes a penalty on its wearer's speed", not movement or something like that. In contrast the slowed condition specifically calls out that it decreases the all modes of movement. I wouldn't be surprised to see this get changed in errata in some way though.

In the initial rules, there was a 'fly' action, a 'climb' action, and so on. As of some errata, you now take the walk action and choose a speed to use. From the rules update:

Page 47: The following text replaces “The Fly Action”
section. These rules clarify how f light works and
remove “f ly” as an action. The revisions also expunge
“crash” in favor of “fall.” See “Falling,” page 284 of
the Player’s Handbook.

[...]

Fly speed: To fly, a creature takes the walk, run, or
charge action but uses its fly speed in place of its
walking speed. A creature that has a fly speed can
also shift and take other move actions, as appropriate, while flying.

 

[OnlineDM]

On a side note; you're really fascinated by the pixie aren't you? Especially pixies that go against type. I'm following your obsession with interest.

Actually, this question has nothing to do with Crazy Wings, the pixie berserker who charges into enemy spaces. This one came up because one of my Friday night players rolled up a pixie bard. She wears chainmail because, well, that's what bards usually do. Shrug.

That said, I do think the pixie is an intriguing race! I'm looking forward to seeing one in action Friday night.

 

[OnlineDM]

In the initial rules, there was a 'fly' action, a 'climb' action, and so on. As of some errata, you now take the walk action and choose a speed to use. From the rules update:

This is all true. But none of it has anything to do with the question of whether heavy armor changes that fly speed. Technically speaking, it doesn't - "speed" as a character trait is defined in the glossary as walking speed. Taking the walk action while flying uses the fly speed - which is separate from the walking speed.

As I said, though, I'm house-ruling this for pixies at the very least to impose the speed penalty for wearing heavy armor to both the fly speed and the walk speed.

 

[Daven]

It says that flying one character take a walk, run or charge action, but uses fly speed instead of walking speed. We can call the (normal) speed "walking speed".
An armor imposes a penalty to its wearer's speed. But it does not use the term "walking speed".
Speed (as a definition) is distance in square a character moves using the walk action, but the walk action is not intended only for walking speed, in fact flying you use the "walk" action.
So by rules (updated rules), if you have a "flying speed" of 6, you take a "walk" action, your "speed" is 6 "flying". But, you put an heavy armor with a penalty to "speed" of -1. It does apply at "speed", not "walking speed". So your "speed" "flying", using the "walk" action, is "fly speed" -1. Finally a pixie in chainmail, "flying" moves 5 squares with the "walk" action, that it is not walking.
My only possible error is that I use "walking speed" as a rule term, but I am not sure it exists. I extrapolate it from the rule of "flying" when it says "..instead of walking speed...".

From "Rules Compendium":
Pag. 252: "WALK; Action: move action; Movement: the creature moves up to its speed. Despite the action's name, a creature isn't always literally walking when it takes this action. The walk action can use special movement modes, such as climbing, flying, and swimming."
Pag. 202: "SPEED; Each creature has a speed that is measured in squares. This speed represents how far a creature can move using the walk action [...]; Special Movement Modes: In addition to walking, some creatures have other movement modes that allow them to burrow, climb, fly, or swim. A creature's stat block specifies which of these movement modes it can use, if any, and its speed when using one of those modes. [...]"
Pag. 267: "READING AN ARMOR DESCRIPTION; [...]; Speed: The penalty to speed that a creature takes while wearing the armor. [...]"

By these rules I think it is clear that a pixie in chainmail moves up to 5 squares flying.

 

[MrBeens]

It says that flying one character take a walk, run or charge action, but uses fly speed instead of walking speed. We can call the (normal) speed "walking speed".
An armor imposes a penalty to its wearer's speed. But it does not use the term "walking speed".
Speed (as a definition) is distance in square a character moves using the walk action, but the walk action is not intended only for walking speed, in fact flying you use the "walk" action.
So by rules (updated rules), if you have a "flying speed" of 6, you take a "walk" action, your "speed" is 6 "flying". But, you put an heavy armor with a penalty to "speed" of -1. It does apply at "speed", not "walking speed". So your "speed" "flying", using the "walk" action, is "fly speed" -1. Finally a pixie in chainmail, "flying" moves 5 squares with the "walk" action, that it is not walking.
My only possible error is that I use "walking speed" as a rule term, but I am not sure it exists. I extrapolate it from the rule of "flying" when it says "..instead of walking speed...".

From "Rules Compendium":
Pag. 252: "WALK; Action: move action; Movement: the creature moves up to its speed. Despite the action's name, a creature isn't always literally walking when it takes this action. The walk action can use special movement modes, such as climbing, flying, and swimming."
Pag. 202: "SPEED; Each creature has a speed that is measured in squares. This speed represents how far a creature can move using the walk action [...]; Special Movement Modes: In addition to walking, some creatures have other movement modes that allow them to burrow, climb, fly, or swim. A creature's stat block specifies which of these movement modes it can use, if any, and its speed when using one of those modes. [...]"
Pag. 267: "READING AN ARMOR DESCRIPTION; [...]; Speed: The penalty to speed that a creature takes while wearing the armor. [...]"

By these rules I think it is clear that a pixie in chainmail moves up to 5 squares flying.

Agreed. If you apply the slowed condition to something it's speed is changed to 2. This is applied to all it's movement modes.

 

[OnlineDM]

Okay, well I guess we're back to my original intuition - pixie in heavy armor = fly speed reduced to 5. Sounds like maybe that IS RAW after all. Beats me. I know that's how I'm playing it at my table.

 

[Mirtek]

I think the technicality is the answer. The compendium defines speed as "The distance (in squares) that a creature can move using the walk action." and says armor "imposes a penalty on its wearer's speed", not movement or something like that.

However the walk action is what's universally used to move.

You use the walk action to fly, swim or burrow if you have the respective speeds.

This is all true. But none of it has anything to do with the question of whether heavy armor changes that fly speed. Technically speaking, it doesn't - "speed" as a character trait is defined in the glossary as walking speed. Taking the walk action while flying uses the fly speed - which is separate from the walking speed.

Which includes all your speeds, the glossary says nothing about how the walk action is used. It says the speed is the 'distance (in squares) a creature can move using the walk action'. It never talks about walking at all, only about using the walk action. In 4e walking != the walk action just like a weapon used in two hands is != a two handed weapon (except it specified as such in the table)

 

[Rampage_Starfire]

Since all the relevant rules seem to be researched here anyway, I'll ask:

Half-Elf+Thaliessan Blood Feat+Plate Armor = ??

Swim Speed of 4, or imitating a bottom feeder?