Planar binding = unlimited wishes?

[Lonely Tylenol]

One of my players just informed me of a cheeseball way of enhancing his ability scores: planar binding. This 6th level spell can be used to call an efreeti, who can grant 3 wishes. Assuming that the party is already 11th or 12th level, an efreeti isn't exactly a scary monster for them, so they can threaten it with death if it doesn't make with the wishes post-haste. The wishes are used to increase ability scores in the manner that Wish is able to do. At the point where more than 3 wishes are needed, a second efreeti can be called.

Assume the caster makes a calling diagram and has a dimensional anchor spell ready to go, not that efreet have dimensional travel abilities. An efreeti isn't likely to make the Cha check off the bat, and if he does, he's screwed anyway. Aside from the old "perverting the wording of the wishes" shtick, which my players are unlikely to slip up on due to extreme paranoia, is there any reason why this shouldn't work, per the RAW. It seems that for no XP outlay and at 11th level, the party can add +5 to each ability score of each party member.

Certainly I can bring down the ban-hammer on it, but I like to find legitimate ways of disallowing things before I start house-ruling stuff.

 

[Stalker0]

Screw up the wishes. You say your players are paranoid, but I find the more legal text they throw in the easier it can be to find a loophole and take them down. You have a very angry efreeti whose being forced to cast wishes, you better believe he will make the party regret ever calling one of his kind.

Examples:

Player: I want a +3 to my strength score.
Wish: Player is now a bear

Player: I want a +3 to my strength score, but I don't want to be changed into any other creature, I just want my strength to go up.
Wish: You get a bull's strength on you. It lasts for 10 minutes, but you get a +4 to your strength score!!

Player: I want a +3 inherent bonus to my strength score, I don't want to be changed into any other creature, and I want it to last forever.
Wish: You gain a +3 to your strength score, and you now have an imprisonment spell cast on you. You are stuck in a hell dimension forever.


Normally, I wouldn't screw players like this with the actual wish spell. But if they want to cheese the system, make them pay

 

[frankthedm]

Remember that wishes must be cast one right after another to stack. Unless you have 2 caster compleling service at one time, the time it takes to bargain would prevent those bonuses from stacking up.

The Charisma happens after the "offer". So the wish first, then charisma check.

I will say one thing. If the conjurer is respectful, courteous and offer valuables in fair compensation for a wish [see PHB goods and services for spellcasting costs], the efreeti might provide a normal wish.

Planar Binding
Conjuration (Calling) [see text for lesser planar binding]
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S
Targets: Up to three elementals or outsiders, totaling no more than 12 HD, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart when they appear

This spell functions like lesser planar binding, except that you may call a single creature of 12 HD or less, or up to three creatures of the same kind whose Hit Dice total no more than 12. Each creature gets a save, makes an independent attempt to escape, and must be individually persuaded to aid you.

Planar Binding, Lesser
Conjuration (Calling) [see text]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels); see text
Target: One elemental or outsider with 6 HD or less
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: No and Yes; see text

Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell’s range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom.

To create the trap, you must use a magic circle spell, focused inward. The kind of creature to be bound must be known and stated. If you wish to call a specific individual, you must use that individual’s proper name in casting the spell.

The target creature is allowed a Will saving throw. If the saving throw succeeds, the creature resists the spell. If the saving throw fails, the creature is immediately drawn to the trap (spell resistance does not keep it from being called). The creature can escape from the trap with by successfully pitting its spell resistance against your caster level check, by dimensional travel, or with a successful Charisma check (DC 15 + ½ your caster level + your Cha modifier). It can try each method once per day. If it breaks loose, it can flee or attack you. A dimensional anchor cast on the creature prevents its escape via dimensional travel. You can also employ a calling diagram (see magic circle against evil) to make the trap more secure.

If the creature does not break free of the trap, you can keep it bound for as long as you dare. You can attempt to compel the creature to perform a service by describing the service and perhaps offering some sort of reward. You make a Charisma check opposed by the creature’s Charisma check. The check is assigned a bonus of +0 to +6 based on the nature of the service and the reward. If the creature wins the opposed check, it refuses service. New offers, bribes, and the like can be made or the old ones reoffered every 24 hours. This process can be repeated until the creature promises to serve, until it breaks free, or until you decide to get rid of it by means of some other spell. Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to. If you roll a 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the binding and can escape or attack you.

Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only so inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge. If you assign some open-ended task that the creature cannot complete though its own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level, and the creature gains an immediate chance to break free. Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions.

When you use a calling spell to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type.

 

[Fieari]

I'd stick with "Trying to get a malevolent entity to grant a wish will involve perversion of intent".

Do not, under any circumstances, let them say "I wish to increase my strength by 1" or any numerical value. This has only a meta meaning, and cannot be stated in game. A wizard casting this himself could word it this way, but that's because he's the one doing the casting. He doesn't have to worry about wording as long as he stays within the safe limits.

Any other phraseology can be perverted, and I recomend you do so. If you're stuck for how to pervert it as correctly stated (and I'm of the belief that the english language is ambiguous enough that NOTHING can be stated perfectly; see Syntactic ambiguity), look for ways the efreeti could possibly have "misheard" the request. Remember, it's not the players casting the spell, it's the efreeti. And YOU, the DM, control the efreeti. Even if the efreeti is compelled to obey, what if the efreeti misheard "strength" for "stench"? A matter of accents, you see. That sort of thing. "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you meant..."

Also, as aluded to in the posts above, have the efreeti do MORE than asked for. Or get to the result via a laborous route (like becomming a bear) or for a short period of time.

Even so, don't let them get away with this sort of thing. I'll bet there's a King of efreeti somewhere that might get pissed off that his servants are being used in this way...

And if it takes multiple efreeti to do this feat, I'd bet an uprising would be leveled against them sooner, rather than later.

 

[frankthedm]

One more thing. If this works, then the players better expect to see many of thier foes with +5 inherant bonuses to all stats.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The planar binding says, "The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom." Granting one wish is one service. Granting three wishes is three services. Note that inherent bonuses do not stack, so to have greater than a +1 inherent bonus, "Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession ..." Calling up a second efreeti will certainly not be in immediate succession. In fact, even if you allow 3 wishes per efreeti, I would say that the PC stating the wish in between would not count as immediate succession.

No can do, by the RAW. You can, however, get +1 inherent to each ability for "free". You really need to follow-up on that, though, as "The creature might later seek revenge."

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'd stick with "Trying to get a malevolent entity to grant a wish will involve perversion of intent".

Do not, under any circumstances, let them say "I wish to increase my strength by 1" or any numerical value. This has only a meta meaning, and cannot be stated in game. A wizard casting this himself could word it this way, but that's because he's the one doing the casting. He doesn't have to worry about wording as long as he stays within the safe limits.

Any other phraseology can be perverted, and I recomend you do so. If you're stuck for how to pervert it as correctly stated (and I'm of the belief that the english language is ambiguous enough that NOTHING can be stated perfectly; see Syntactic ambiguity), look for ways the efreeti could possibly have "misheard" the request. Remember, it's not the players casting the spell, it's the efreeti. And YOU, the DM, control the efreeti. Even if the efreeti is compelled to obey, what if the efreeti misheard "strength" for "stench"? A matter of accents, you see. That sort of thing. "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you meant..."

Also, as aluded to in the posts above, have the efreeti do MORE than asked for. Or get to the result via a laborous route (like becomming a bear) or for a short period of time.

Even so, don't let them get away with this sort of thing. I'll bet there's a King of efreeti somewhere that might get pissed off that his servants are being used in this way...

And if it takes multiple efreeti to do this feat, I'd bet an uprising would be leveled against them sooner, rather than later.

See, the thing is, at the level at which you get planar binding, you can easily knock off an efreeti, probably in one round. So you can say, with perfect honesty, "you will grant me your three wishes. If I don't like the outcome of any of them, you will die. Since this is a calling spell, that means you die permanently."

Efreet aren't the nicest outsiders, but they're not suicidal. Twisting the intent just means that he gets a Cone of Cold to the head, followed by a bunch of nasty swords and things. If the relative power levels between the party and the genie were different, this wouldn't be an issue. I suspect the problem is giving a Wish (much less 3 of them) to a 10 HD outsider.

 

[Fieari]

No can do, by the RAW. You can, however, get +1 inherent to each ability for "free". You really need to follow-up on that, though, as "The creature might later seek revenge."

I'd like to emphasize that if the efreeti really is that much weaker than the PCs, the revenge shouldn't be coming back later and trying to kill them, since that's too easily solved, but rather looking for other people to get revenge on them instead, and/or going around messing up their plans (impersonating them, trashing their reputation, impersonating allies of theirs and sending them off on wild goose chases, messing with their stuff in secret, messing with their friends)... that sort of thing.

Make the efreeti a wily little {illegitamate son}. A potential BBEG, for that matter.

 

[darthkilmor]

<snip> an efreeti isn't exactly a scary monster for them, so they can threaten it with death if it doesn't make with the wishes post-haste.
<snip>not that efreet have dimensional travel abilities. <snip>

So the premise is , "do what we want or we'll kill you" ? Efreeti can simply say "Go for it. My Lord Xceecatyqqwxxo will be most displeased." If they kill him, do as below.
OR
Give them the first three wishes. when they boggle about how it worked, and are busy thinking up all the free stuff they want, have a couple dozens genies plane shift in and start heading over to their locality. Hopefully you can ilicit a "teleport, teleport, anywhere but here!!" out of your offending wizard. Let them find out the hard way why every 12th lvl + wizard doesn't have beefed up stats.

And, Efreeti can plane shift.


Or just say "make an K:The Planes check. You dont think this would be a very good idea. In fact, you're pretty sure it would be a very bad idea."

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Even so, don't let them get away with this sort of thing. I'll bet there's a King of efreeti somewhere that might get pissed off that his servants are being used in this way...

And if it takes multiple efreeti to do this feat, I'd bet an uprising would be leveled against them sooner, rather than later.

This would be my solution . . . let them have the wishes. I doubt they could get more than a few ability scores boosted (figure 1 wizard casting two, maybe three planar bindings per day) this way before King Efreet and his fiery badboys bring bloody burning doom down on the mortals who had the audacity to try to enslave the efreeti race.

And if they cry about it point out that they were the ones that were trying to break the game, not you.