D&D (2024) Playtest 8: Cantrips

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I view empathy and insight as inseparable components of social skills.

Enchantment doesn't grant those though, nor should it. It manipulates the thoughts and emotions of others. I think Bless and Heroism are the only self target spells in the school, (and feel like a bit of a stretch).

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Mage: the Ascension used the term Mudra to describe what D&D refers to as Somatic Components.

Mudras are gestures and hands positions you see various forms of Indian dance and Yoga. So in my vision somatic components are just certain gestures and hand positions like having the thumb and index in a circle pointing with the 3rd to 5th fingers downward, they might be hideable with a Charisma (Deception or Performance) check.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Mage: the Ascension used the term Mudra to describe what D&D refers to as Somatic Components.

Mudras are gestures and hands positions you see various forms of Indian dance and Yoga. So in my vision somatic components are just certain gestures and hand positions like having the thumb and index in a circle pointing with the 3rd to 5th fingers downward, they might be hideable with a Charisma (Deception or Performance) check.

Or a slight of hands check, that can also be used to hide what you are doing with your component pouch.

 

[mellored]

The problem isn't the check, its roofieing the person beforehand. Like... it's not a good guy move to magically drug people to get them to bend to your will.

So skillful manipulation is fine.
But magic manipulation isn't?

Can't say I see much difference, but ok.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

So skillful manipulation is fine.
But magic manipulation isn't?

Can't say I see much difference, but ok.

So you have no problem with drugging people against their will to get your way?

Sorry man, Enchantment is the creep school of magic. People should be angry if they realize they were charmed.

 

[WanderingMystic]

While I agree that enchantment is creepy the freinds cantrip is hardly drugging someone. All that is does is give you advantage, you could get the same thing by good roleplaying, fancy cloths, guidance to help you say the right words.

 

[mellored]

So you have no problem with drugging people against their will to get your way?

Never volunteered at drug rehab clinic have you. Maybe a psychiatrist?

But having enough Charisma to get your country to invade Ukraine is not evil?

Or maybe it depends on what "your way" is, not the tools you used.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Mage: the Ascension used the term Mudra to describe what D&D refers to as Somatic Components.

Mudras are gestures and hands positions you see various forms of Indian dance and Yoga. So in my vision somatic components are just certain gestures and hand positions like having the thumb and index in a circle pointing with the 3rd to 5th fingers downward, they might be hideable with a Charisma (Deception or Performance) check.

Using ability checks to mask your spellcasting? Totally acceptable house rule, but it's nowhere in the RAW. It bypasses what I believe to be a much-needed limitation of spellcasting that levels the playing field a tiny bit when compared to non-spellcasters (without changing the rules). To ignore those components is to make casters even more potent because enemies may never know they are being targeted.

D&D spellcasting components are an amalgamation of activities that are porttrayed in lots of media. It's not just precise hand gestures that need training and practice to get right (like in "The Magicians," or mudras in lots of anime). It's not just speaking the words out loud and waving a wand like in the Wizarding World. It's not just the alchemy of materials to power the casting. It's potentially all of the above.

How I see the narrative? Reality is determined by our (potentially shared) perception, and wielding magic via spellcasting is an intense, focused effort to reshape reality, so you are manifesting your power to challenge not only the perception of everyone witnessing it, but you are convincing reality itself that you mean it.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Never volunteered at drug rehab clinic have you. Maybe a psychiatrist?

I consider forcibly kidnapping people against their will and trapping them in rehab not a Good act personally. Do you typically roofie patients to coerce them to comply in rehab?

But having enough Charisma to get your country to invade Ukraine is not evil?

I never said all use of Charisma was Good (tm). I said mind control isn't Good.

Or maybe it depends on what "your way" is, not the tools you used.

Sure, lets say torture, slavery, animating the dead, human sacrifice, and pacts with demonic beings etc are Good too while we're at it! Look at the results!

 

[mellored]

I consider forcibly kidnapping people against their will and trapping them in rehab not a Good act personally. Do you typically roofie patients to coerce them to comply in rehab?

Not at all.
Not sure why you would think that.

I never said all use of Charisma was Good (tm). I said mind control isn't Good.

You're not convincing me they are any different.

Sure, lets say torture, slavery, animating the dead, human sacrifice, and pacts with demonic beings etc are Good too while we're at it! Look at the results!

Your a wizard trying to stop the return of Orcus, who will slaughter the entire sword coast and turn everyone into his undead army.

Your only lead is a cultists you captured.

What do you do?