D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Ashrym]

Is that where you show up with a boombox over your head?

I should make an artificer/bard just for sound equipment and a light show. Boombox it is.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I believe they are increasing the number of spells with upcasting. Crawford talked about that for the Sorcerer and Twin Spell, iirc

It's one of their biggest post-3E improvements (no idea if it was in 4E). They should definitely double down on it.

 

[mellored]

Quick opinion on classes in the spell description: I like it too. I find it to be an easier reference when reading a spell than looking at class lists to see which classes access a particular spell.
Conjure Elemental seems far better than Cloud of Daggers as a similarly conjured stationary effect. Am I missing something here?

Level 5 spell should be better than a level 2 spell.

That said, Conjure Elementals only works with "Move", and requires a hit. Drop it on someone and they can teleport out without issues.

You can have a Barbarian push someone into a Cloud of Daggers for auto-damage. If they walk out, push them back.

that sounds like a lot of secrets.

Yup.
I mean, reduce the total number they know, but let them know a chunk from any list will keep the whole "pick a list" thing everyone liked.

 

[Mistwell]

The new Conjure spells really give incentive to have forced movement powers in your party. A ton of synergy here with the martials. Summon the area of deadliness, and the martials grapple or otherwise knock the foes into that area, and back out again, and back into them again, as often as they can pull it off.

 

[Ashrym]

That said, Conjure Elementals only works with "Move", and requires a hit. Drop it on someone and they can teleport out without issues.

I'm more inclined to use spells like that to manipulate battlefield safe zones than the actual damage.

I'm curious if the spell blocks movement. An elemental spirit that grapples should also block space, which cloud of daggers does not.

I don't think there's enough information in the spell description.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

The new Conjure spells really give incentive to have forced movement powers in your party.

With the caveat that there may be some silliness happening near the edges of those areas, as with 10ft (from Push mastery), the enemy is first pushed into the area and then back out again, for the next martial to do the same.

Which just turns the Push mastery into a conditional damage boost, which is certainly still more interesting than everyone just running around with perma-advantage from Vex weapons.

 

[mellored]

The new Conjure spells really give incentive to have forced movement powers in your party. A ton of synergy here with the martials. Summon the area of deadliness, and the martials grapple or otherwise knock the foes into that area, and back out again, and back into them again, as often as they can pull it off.

With the caveat that there may be some silliness happening near the edges of those areas, as with 10ft (from Push mastery), the enemy is first pushed into the area and then back out again, for the next martial to do the same.

Which just turns the Push mastery into a conditional damage boost, which is certainly still more interesting than everyone just running around with perma-advantage from Vex weapons.

Just pointing out that they have "first time on a turn".

So you can't knock them though, run around and knock them back though on the same turn.

But yea. Barbarian push 15' is going to come in handy.

 

[Maxperson]

Not following. If you're saying there's no real world analogue to bards you're just not seeing them. Bards are present in history and myth. Clerics are self-referenced as a contrast.

Bards were around, but not in the way D&D portrays them.

Modern interpretations can be from those myths and legends, history, similar role in other cultures, and more modern examples like: KISS in movies, cartoons, an comics; Alice Cooper, lord of nightmares (think Dynamite's CHAOS!verse version); or God of Stories Loki, the bard of Asgard, from Marvel comics.

Yes. Singers and storytellers were around, but not bards like the class.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm in favour of switching VSM out for VSF and making the spell component pouch an explicit focus. And then cutting the archaic list of components from the spell descriptions (possibly listing them in an appendix page somewhere). I don't recall ever seeing someone tracking material components.

I can live with VSF. Where the F is the Focus/Implement.

But.

What is the Implement of Innate Spellcasting?

And the Implement of the Sorcerer would be the Bloodline itself.

And the Implement of the Psionic is the Brain?

And other awkward.


V and S can be meaningful. But each class has its own concepts and methods for spellcasting.

 

[Horwath]

Unnecessary does equate to unnecessary, distracting, waste of space, that interferes with already complex technical descriptions. So it does equate to bad.

Again, players need to go back and forth anyway to locate the spell names of the needed spell slot level.

That is why spell description section needs separation by spell level first, then every spell level needs alphabetical listing.

and yes, every spell needs class list.