D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Horwath]

I can live with VSF. Where the F is the Focus/Implement.

But.

What is the Implement of Innate Spellcasting?

And the Implement of the Sorcerer would be the Bloodline itself.

And the Implement of the Psionic is the Brain?

And other awkward.


V and S can be meaningful. But each class has its own concepts and methods for spellcasting.

If we get rid of VSMF completely, it would not be missed much.
It's mostly ignored and when it's not, it's just hairsplitting arguments between players and DMs, because as usual in 5E there are no fixed guidelines and DCs on how loud is V components and at what distance can be heard and with what DC.

leave really expensive consumable components if they are really needed for game balance and magic focuses that give +X or what not to spellcasting.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I expect it's going to mess up some expectations when I tell my players that V means if they can't hear you in the next block, you're not doing magic.

 

[Horwath]

I expect it's going to mess up some expectations when I tell my players that V means if they can't hear you in the next block, you're not doing magic.

how far is the next block?
How large are the blocks?

is it from the start of the 1st block to the start of the 2nd block or from the nearest point of two blocks?

Is it a street, avenue, highway or a park between blocks?

 

[Ashrym]

Bards were around, but not in the way D&D portrays them.

Yes. Singers and storytellers were around, but not bards like the class.

D&D creates a framework. Players make a character out of that framework. I create bards from those sources using the D&D framework and you don't have agency to change the characterization of my bards so what you seem to be saying doesn't make any sense.

What characteristics do think have been added to the class or are missing from the class that bards don't match the examples I gave that prevent me from making those characters?

 

[Stalker0]

I can take or leave the 2d4 healing word, I think everyone thought HW was a good spell for the niche of bringing back an unconscious player, and it doesn't really need to do anything else.

The 2d8 cure wounds is quite solid, I think especially for like the 2nd or 3rd level version, that's a notable amount of extra healing.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I can live with VSF. Where the F is the Focus/Implement.

But.

What is the Implement of Innate Spellcasting?

And the Implement of the Sorcerer would be the Bloodline itself.

Obligatory rant. Bloodlines aren't the 5e Sorcerer "thing". That's Pathfinder. 5e Sorcerers get their magic from random stuff that might be a bloodline but other than for dragon blooded probably isn't.

But yes, most of the sorcerer subclasses should say "no non-expensive focus needed".

V and S can be meaningful. But each class has its own concepts and methods for spellcasting.

Agreed - but there's only one major outlier. So that can go in the class.

 

[Stalker0]

Looking at the none conjure spells for a second.

Power Word Fortify: Its a cool spell, nice to have a concentration free buff, they are just so rare nowadays. My first reaction was "hmm is it 7th level worthy?" I would definately think 6th, is it 7th? Then looking at the cleric spell list....god I forget how crappy the 7th level cleric spell list, yeah this one looks good compared to that list.

 

[Maxperson]

D&D creates a framework. Players make a character out of that framework. I create bards from those sources using the D&D framework and you don't have agency to change the characterization of my bards so what you seem to be saying doesn't make any sense.

I don't care one whit what you do to alter bards. If you want to put on a cape and paint an S on your chest, flying around and saving kids, go for it.

I'm talking about the default bard. The default design of the bard really doesn't match up to anything in the real world beyond the name bard and having an instrument.

What characteristics do think have been added to the class or are missing from the class that bards don't match the examples I gave that prevent me from making those characters?

Real world bards don't run around casting 1st to 9th level spells for one thing. They don't have magical songs of sort D&D bards have. They don't have proficiency or a bonus at everything. They didn't inspire the way D&D bards do.

They simply don't match up to D&D bards, so to say here that bards would or wouldn't have X is absurd. They have what they have because TSR/WotC designed them that way and it's appropriate for them to have those abilities even if you don't like them.

What I am saying has nothing to do with how you choose to roleplay a bard. I'm only talking the mechanics of the D&D bard matched up to real world bards. Or rather the lack of a match up.

 

[Maxperson]

If we get rid of VSMF completely, it would not be missed much.
It's mostly ignored and when it's not, it's just hairsplitting arguments between players and DMs, because as usual in 5E there are no fixed guidelines and DCs on how loud is V components and at what distance can be heard and with what DC.

While it is true that there is no set volume for the verbal chant of the spell, both the definition and the real world common usage of chanting mean that it is typically shouted or sung. Just look at protests, religious ceremonies, etc. where chanting is done. It ain't quiet. Sometimes chanting is done atypically in a normal tone of voice, but that's rare. What chanting isn't ever, is in a low voice or whisper.

So DM's can vary the volume, but if they are going by what chanting means, it would be fairly easily heard.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Having taken a looks at the Conjure spells, most of them are pretty okay and I don't agree that they're flavorless.

But... conjure animals.

Play, so everything else is like 'you summon a planar spirit that does it's thing and you are a diet 4e Invoker' and that's cool. But Conjure animals is just 'ghost animal exist'. Like... what? It feels like such a missed opportunity. especially when they talk all the time about 'class fantasy' and then this is what they think people imagine in the current pop culture zeitgeist when they imagine calling upon an animal spirit to defend you.