podcast: 4th edition combat too long

[bert1000]

Wow, just watched it. Have to agree with the other posters that playing D&D is a lot more fun than watching it, but still this is a bad promo for the game:

1) lack of excitement from anyone at the table besides dave, until the very end when folks get a little more relaxed but still not much

2) lack of description of actions / powers (except a little by dave). "28 hit, 7 damage", "22 miss", "I use O. Sphere on the mindflayer" vs.

"I concentrate on the area around the mindflayer, and bending the molecules to my will, start to form an invisible bubble of force around it. I cast O. Sphere. [Roll]. Miss! I'm losing control of the arcane energy but hold on just enough to form a weak barrier. The Mindflayer is immobilized, save ends."

I'm not saying every power has to be described like that, but throw in some of that to show folks that have never played.

3) Some player interaction at the end, but otherwise feels like the players are playing in their own separate games. Where's the teamwork? Players almost exclusively talk to the DM only

I'm not saying it's easy to make a video that really shows what it feels like to play, but why release something that likely won't excite a non-player?

I hope they release a video of play that highlights the way 4e and table top RPGs in general are different from video games, etc.

Even in combat you can highlight things like:
1) creative decriptions of powers
2) on the fly ruling by the DM
3) the fun of live interaction between players as well as between players and DM

 

[Felon]

QFT. I saw a bit of the podcast and it was rather... underwhelming. Except for the library with all those D&D books. Man, I'd love to get my grubby hands on them!

And then there was that oddly conspicuous Monopoly box...what the?

 

[Felon]

"I declare him to be my prey." Best line.

Only line, more or less.

What was the deal with that anyway? Rogues don't declare prey. Maybe some beta-version rogue ability?

 

[Mephistopheles]

It wasn't great but I cut them some slack. As Mr. Noonan said it was their first shot at something like this.

If they plan to do another I reckon they should find one of the ongoing WotC campaign groups willing to be filmed. Record half a dozen sessions so they get a little more comfortable having the camera around. Then delete the first five and only start releasing the sixth one and go from there.

If we were watching a game where the people were friends to the extent that they play D&D together every week or fortnight, are invested in their characters, had been given some time to get used to the camera, and the session had some context to it I think it would be a lot more entertaining than what seemed to be a one shot scenario.

Thumbs up for the initiative, but they need to work on the format.

 

[silentounce]

And then there was that oddly conspicuous Monopoly box...what the?

Probably this, http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20070401b

But yeah, about the podcast. The thing that pissed me off the most was the misuse of powers, like the "Pray for More" and there were others as well. Like the warlock attacking the wrong defense with one of her powers. Yeah, I get that these players aren't designers, but the DM was. It's funny too, you think if they are going to overlay a graphic of how a specific power works they would have picked the ones that were actually played properly. And as far as the players not marking/filling their character role, for new players the DM should be helping them out and suggesting those sort of things. But from the way they built up the session before hand it looked like he wanted to try too hard to be a hardass/badass. The DM's role really is one of a teacher, at least at the beginning with new players. They are the ones that are supposed to have the best grasp of the rules. I believe it says something like this in the DMG, as well. He should be helping them, at least a little bit, if they were new players. And if they weren't, then they should have played much better.

I really enjoy the PvP/PA podcast, too. But there was a play error in that one as well. The Beacon of Hope shouldn't have given the cleric +5 hp on his use of a healing surge. I'm more likely to forgive that because I can tell that the DM is just, well better, and may have allowed it just to fudge for the PCs. Basically, in the video podcast the mistakes just seemed to come from ignorance of the rules, scary, considering who the DM is and considering how he was hyped. Pretty much everything I've read or seen from WotC about the new edition has contained errors of some sort that are very easy to spot for me and I am by no means an expert on 4e.

 

[KarinsDad]

2) lack of description of actions / powers (except a little by dave). "28 hit, 7 damage", "22 miss", "I use O. Sphere on the mindflayer" vs.

"I concentrate on the area around the mindflayer, and bending the molecules to my will, start to form an invisible bubble of force around it. I cast O. Sphere. [Roll]. Miss! I'm losing control of the arcane energy but hold on just enough to form a weak barrier. The Mindflayer is immobilized, save ends."

I'm not saying every power has to be described like that, but throw in some of that to show folks that have never played.

In 30 years of gaming, I've only ever seen one person actually do that at a table (and he was the DM and acted more like Dave here) but then only sporadically. I've read a lot of posts here where people say "my group does that too", "mine too", "mine too", "mine too", but I don't really believe it.

I suspect that vast majority of gamers out there play like the players at that table:

"28 hit, 7 damage", "22 miss", "I use O. Sphere on the mindflayer"

For us, the fun does not come from play acting of actual actions within combats. In combat, it comes from being challenged (i.e. suspenseful or even scary situations), tactical success, and from pithy sayings from various people that keep the humor going.

If Dave was my DM, I'd ask him to tone it down a bit. Most non-gaming people watching this would probably think he's a loon.

Note: Not to say his describing every hit and miss style along with a ton of body language is bad for every group, I just personally would find it very annoying and I suspect that more non-gamers would be taken back by it rather than attracted to the game by it. It makes gamers look like fringe weirdos. JMO.

 

[Anax]

I like it when flavor gets added to the events in a fight, but it's best when it only happens occasionally. The lucky crit that takes down a big enemy? Ham it up a bit. Performing acrobatic stunts? Hell yeah. Every single attack roll? Not so much.

 

[helium3]

Let's see it then. Let's see everyone in this thread who has picked apart this latest podcast post a video blog of their next session, so we can all bask in the radiance of their D&D godliness.

How many people will take up that challenge?

I'll do my best . . .

It'll be my opening 4E game after having played a little KoTS and run the world's most boring fight against a black dragon.

 

[helium3]

That requires a lot of time, equipment, editing & investment in presentation. The market/audience in this case is just not big enough to support that I'm afraid. At least not at a sustained level.

Yes, as a subsidiary of Hasbro they're basically working out of someone's garage. Heaven forbid they edit a video podcast to make it a tad more interesting. After all, it was either "edit the video podcast" or "pay a developer for a week of work."

 

[Felon]

Yes, as a subsidiary of Hasbro they're basically working out of someone's garage. Heaven forbid they edit a video podcast to make it a tad more interesting. After all, it was either "edit the video podcast" or "pay a developer for a week of work."

Everybody's "basically working out of someone else's garage", unless you're self-employed--in which case you work out of your own garage.

I suspect the subject of the D&D podcast probably didn't rate too highly on the CEO's agenda of the last Hasbro board meeting, and it's actually somebody at WotC who decides what they're going to do with their podcasts. Considering their podcasts in the past have been audio-only, this is actually a push forward for them.