Polearm Champion fighter 3 remaining ASI?

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Which single attacks would those be?

Even Ancient Red Dragons, at CR 24, only deal 35 damage with it's bite attack. That's still more than 1/12 off.

Giants start multi-attacking in the 20-30 average range at CR 8 (Frost) and all the ones up with higher CR also do 20-30.

Bunch of demons: Balor (CR 19) & Goristro (CT 17) & wow, Nalfeshnee exceed that with 32 average at CR 13.

Dinosaurs too: Triceratops (CR *5*) does 24 average. T-Rex at CR *8* is allt he way up to 33 average bite.

I just did a quick skim of categories of bruiser type foes, I'm sure there's plenty of other singletons. And most of the MM is much weaker than what level 20 characters will be fighting. But seeing at 20-30 damage seems to be starting for bruisers at around CR 8-9, I'm sure the CR 20 bruisers won't average less damage.
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Giants start multi-attacking in the 20-30 average range at CR 8 (Frost) and all the ones up with higher CR also do 20-30.

Bunch of demons: Balor (CR 19) & Goristro (CT 17) & wow, Nalfeshnee exceed that with 32 average at CR 13.

Dinosaurs too: Triceratops (CR *5*) does 24 average. T-Rex at CR *8* is allt he way up to 33 average bite.

I just did a quick skim of categories of bruiser type foes, I'm sure there's plenty of other singletons. And most of the MM is much weaker than what level 20 characters will be fighting. But seeing at 20-30 damage seems to be starting for bruisers at around CR 8-9, I'm sure the CR 20 bruisers won't average less damage.

They usually get multiattack to make up the damage. Outside spells few attacks do more than 20-30 average damage.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
As above: Most single attack damage caps out at around 30, meaning at worst, HAM is blocking around 10% of the damage they're throwing out (assuming it's blocking anything).
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
They usually get multiattack to make up the damage. Outside spells few attacks do more than 20-30 average damage.

We're not looking for over 20-30 average attack, we are looking for attacks in the 20-30 attack range. So the fact that there aren't many above that range isn't really of import to the discussion.

The multiattack was on the giants. At CR 8 and above, giants already are in the 20-30 average damage per attack range, AND they have multiattack with those attacks. So multiattack is not "making up" for for less damage in this case - they are really hitting that hard, they are just doing it more than once with their melee attacks.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
We're not looking for over 20-30 average attack, we are looking for attacks in the 20-30 attack range. So the fact that there aren't many above that range isn't really of import to the discussion.

The multiattack was on the giants. At CR 8 and above, giants already are in the 20-30 average damage per attack range, AND they have multiattack with those attacks. So multiattack is not "making up" for for less damage in this case - they are really hitting that hard, they are just doing it more than once with their melee attacks.

A 10% reduction is still nothing to scoff at.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
A 10% reduction is still nothing to scoff at.

I'll even give you a 15% reduction. Of the non-magical B/P/S damage you take at 20th level. Say it keeps you up for one extra hit. Maybe 1/3 of the time you would have dropped that would keep you up for an extra action, other times you'll still drop before your action. The rest of the time it basically means nothing - either you're down anyway or it's fractional less to heal.

How many combats a day does your Fighter 20 drop? Say a fighter 20 drop 1 in 5 combats. 1/3 of that means 1 in 15 combats it will come in play to give you an extra attack before dropping.

Actually, I realized that math is assuming it protects against 15% of everything, but really it only protects against non-magical B/P/S. So breath weapons, spells, creatures who have attacks counting as magic, poison, etc. So it's a lot less than 1 combat in 15 it actually makes a difference.

For free, I'd absolutely take it. No scoffing from me.

As a opportunity cost displacing another feat or ASI - well, depends on the rest of the build. In the post I recommended staying away from it there were 3 available ASI/feats. I suggestion of for DEX/WIS (under the incorrect assumption he could take resilient WIS instead of DEX), Lucky, Great Weapon Mastery (to go with PAM), and Sentinel. You may have noticed that's over three, so they already can't get everything I suggested.

I don't see that the minor benefit it gives outweighs the opportunity cost of a different feat at 20th. HAM is a great feat at lower levels, but as average damage increases and damage that bypasses it becomes more common it loses effectiveness. 20th level is, by definition, where it will be the least effective. And at that point other feats can and do bypass it in what they give you for your ASI.
 


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