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Politics interfering with gaming

frankthedm

First Post
Chimera said:
For my part, I don't buy into the ideological zeal that requires me to think of someone with a different opinion or belief to be my "enemy".

Sure, there are some issues where it just leaves me shaking my head that people are stupid/crazy/ignorant/evil enough to believe what they believe, but it sure doesn't help me to "go evil" myself on them about it. It certainly isn't going to help change their minds.

None of that requires me to compromise my own position or beliefs.
You don’t have to declare a person as your “enemy” by simply choosing not to have them as a friend. You have your socially expected interaction with the person and no more than that. But…

If you are not winning, those who are not with you are against you and here is why.

Here is why there is no such thing as being neutral on any conflict. When a person does not involve themselves in a conflict, they are letting the side that is currently winning continue to win. It is the same situation if they help both sided equally, the winner is still winning after their “help”. If they help the loosing side more to gain equal footing then they have sided with the losing side.
 

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shadow

First Post
I've quit a gaming group once because of (among many other reasons) religion. One of the players in the group had had a really bad experience with some church; now as a commited atheist/agnostic he felt religion was the source of all evil in society. I'm pretty committed in my religion, but I generally don't bring up religion at the gaming table or see rpgs as an opportunity to evangelize. However, this player had trouble going more than a few minutes without making a disparaging comment about religion. Frequently, he would interrupt the game to go on long tirades against the perceived evils of religion. Finally I got sick of him badmouthing certain religions (and me because of my religious affiliation) and ended up seeking a new group.
 

Viktyr Gehrig

First Post
Pielorinho said:
:eek: That's not even about politics. None of my friends gets to wish death on any of my other friends, and remain my friend. That ain't how it works.

Man, ain't nobody on the planet that gets to wish death on one of my friends while in my house and gets to leave the same way they came in.

I have to admire beepeearr's sense of restraint.
 

Chimera

First Post
frankthedm said:
You don’t have to declare a person as your “enemy” by simply choosing not to have them as a friend. You have your socially expected interaction with the person and no more than that. But…

True enough. One should not be intimate with people who are wrong for you.

frankthedm said:
If you are not winning, those who are not with you are against you and here is why.

Here is why there is no such thing as being neutral on any conflict. When a person does not involve themselves in a conflict, they are letting the side that is currently winning continue to win. It is the same situation if they help both sided equally, the winner is still winning after their “help”. If they help the loosing side more to gain equal footing then they have sided with the losing side.

And therein lies the problem. Not everything is a Conflict. Not everything needs to be seen as Winning and/or Losing. Not everything needs to be handled as being one extreme or the other.

Beyond that, I completely disagree with your formula and ideology about helping/hindering and winning sides.
 


GQuail

Explorer
Chimera said:
Not everything is a Conflict. Not everything needs to be seen as Winning and/or Losing. Not everything needs to be handled as being one extreme or the other.

Alas, for people with really strong beliefs (be they religious, political or whatever) that's not the case at all. If you say that, they might argue, then you're just siding with the Xists/the Y party/the Q scum or what have you.

If you have beliefs that strong, you have to appreciate it's going tobe a burden on your social life. I have an uncle who is a major member (and has been for decades now) of a political group, and we rarely see him because it's simply impossible to have him in a room without someone saying something he'll take umbridge to and leading to a huge, all-night warbling session. Anyone who behaves like that at the game table (or any social occasion, really) has to realise that if someone doesn't agree with them, it's only a matter of time before someone (maybe them) has to leave, because that's no fun to sit through at all.

In my own game we have people of varied politics and ethical stances, and since everyone I play with is a friend I've spent plenty of time talking with them in general before: ethical queries are, in fact, a common pondering point with us over lunches and what not. There is one player in paticular who can be a bit heavy on labouring his point and how all other points are CRAP!, but frankly we've known him enough years that we filter him out at times. Still, at the game table, we have no formal rule about politics coming up: but if I was playing with people I didn't know or people I thought it might be a problem with, I might consider implementing such a rule.

In game I don't tend to write scenarios with overtly preachy goals: but since I studies Politics and Religious Studies at University, there's no denying that sometimes bleeds into some of my ideas. In paticular, my game world has a city called Stardust which was a former patriarchal theocracy with legal slavery (especially of women) that recently had a revolution and the female slaves, under a Goddess of Liberation's cult, have deposed the current government. The players have heard of it often but have yet to visit, and if they do I'd make a point of showing dodgy elements to both groups so as to create a genuine "who the hell's side are we on?" situation. Perhaps there are elements in the set-up which might offend people: but if I may be so bold, only the kind of people who get offended about something sooner or later. ;-)

So, back to HellHound's problem: In that situation, I'd probably speak to all the other players and say that the guy in question is coming off to you as quite abrasive and you find it hard to continue to play, despite enjoying the game otherwise, because you feel he's being incredibly impolite by refusing to drop the subject. Some of them might tell you they feel similar, or at least sympathise, and then from that you can broach the subject with the dude in question and tell him that his preaching is ruining your enjoyment of the game. He'll either think he's made a faux pas and make an effort to patch things up, or he'll tell you how wrong you are blah blah blah, at which point you can leave safe in the knowledge he's not a very nice person.
 

frankthedm

First Post
GQuail said:
Alas, for people with really strong beliefs (be they religious, political or whatever) that's not the case at all. If you say that, they might argue, then you're just siding with the Xists/the Y party/the Q scum or what have you.
Why is that a bad thing? IMO ONLY those who feel that strongly truly have what I consider "beliefs". What others consider a "fanatic" I consider a person who actually believes in their cause.
 

Paradigm

First Post
HellHound said:
Have you ever had politics get in the way of gaming?
Have you ever dropped a group or just a player due to politics?

I would not let politics get in the way of any social activity that I enjoy. I am not on the same end of the political spectrum with many people I game with.

PCI works closely with several other companies, companies that we consider friends in the industry, whose ownership is very far removed politically from some of PCIs leaders.

The only person we dropped from a group due to politics wasn't really due to politics, but from their inability to leave politics out of the game.
 
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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I am married to someone who has different political beliefs than I have on many issues (though not all issues). It's a great marriage.

I am having trouble even comprehending the thinking in not even being able to be friends with someone who disagrees with your politics. It's mind boggling to me. How can you grow in your belief system if you don't expose yourself to opposing viewpoints? How is it any different than any other sort of bigotry if you cannot handle being around "those" people who are different than you in the way they think?

Do people really and honestly think they have achieved a monopoly on the truth for all political issues?
 

fuindordm

Adventurer
What kills me is not that people can believe in something so strongly, but that they can take another's disagreement so personally. It's this tendency that keeps politics and religion out of ENworld and many other boards, not the subjects themselves. Most of my fellow Americans, in my experience, are incapable of discussing these subjects without interpreting criticism of their ideas as criticism of their selves.

In my mind, anyone who is truly confident in their beliefs should have the guts to talk about them with others. If your worldview makes sense to you, it should be able to withstand reasoned and respectful criticism. If you believe strongly that your views are truly better and not just personal preferences, then it's your moral duty to try to sway others (again respectfully, of course).

If, on the other hand, you've chosen to surround yourself only with people who think as you do...

Then you've chosen to stop growing as a person, at least in one aspect of your life and mind. You've abandoned your opportunity to influence others directly. You've chosen your tribe and may soon fall prey to the trap of thinking in terms of "we" and "they", which is far too easy a mental shortcut to be useful.

But many, many people make this choice. Why? There will always be those who seek a tranquil life above all else, and those who need the zest of conflict in their relationships.

Cheers,
Ben
 

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