Ath-kethin
Elder Thing
I don't allow any casters in my campaign except the Warlock, so the bard is a non-starter for me. Nothing personal.
D&D 5E [Poll] Bard Satisfaction Survey
This one is tougher then Barbarian. Mechanically, I think the bard is great for a class. Its balanced and capable. It gets to do some cool things. I just am not sure that it is great for a bard class. The whole thing seems like it would be really great as a lore wizard. Being a full caster may be a bit much. I would prefer to see maybe a half caster, some more bard specific spells, and a lot more bard specific abilities.
Regardless, I think I'd like to see magical secrets being the same across all subclasses, and some abilities added to the lore bard to replace it at 6.
Regardless, I think I'd like to see magical secrets being the same across all subclasses, and some abilities added to the lore bard to replace it at 6.
I've read the replies here and it seems fairly split on those that like the 5e bard and those that don't. I love the 5e bard and, especially, the magical secrets. THIS is what makes a bard. Poaching other casters spells isn't a malevolent intention. It's a happenstance. The bard, finding a dusty tome at the bottom of a stack of old brick a brack decides to read it and gleans the knowledge that's inside. A warlock once wrote that they tapped into their power by invoking the name of Beeblebrox (or whatever). And LO! The bard says the name of this ancient being and makes it aware of the bard's presence...for better or for worse!
Also, the class already has entertainer built in so why restrict the bard to having that as a background. I've seen that discussed here. A musician can come from all walks of life. It just so happens that this bard is taking up an instrument or acting or storytelling and making it the path through which they're able to tap into magic. A sorcerer isn't very different than this. They may be born to their magic but they shouldn't have to be restricted to, say, an outcast as a background.
The one thing that makes the bard a challenge to play are all the concentration spells. This makes sense when you think that a bard has to 'sing' their magic. If the bard casts a new spell (breaks concentration on the previous one) and begins to sing a new song, then you've got to keep on with that song or lose the spell. I know you all know the mechanics, but after having played the Bard, I've been a tad frustrated with this. The only reason a bard would want to poach spells is to have a few more instant cast spells that don't need concentration.
That's my .02. I like the class as it is and love how it multiclasses as well. If you don't want your wizard to be out-cast or out-classed, then choose bard and call him a storytelling wizard.
Also, the class already has entertainer built in so why restrict the bard to having that as a background. I've seen that discussed here. A musician can come from all walks of life. It just so happens that this bard is taking up an instrument or acting or storytelling and making it the path through which they're able to tap into magic. A sorcerer isn't very different than this. They may be born to their magic but they shouldn't have to be restricted to, say, an outcast as a background.
The one thing that makes the bard a challenge to play are all the concentration spells. This makes sense when you think that a bard has to 'sing' their magic. If the bard casts a new spell (breaks concentration on the previous one) and begins to sing a new song, then you've got to keep on with that song or lose the spell. I know you all know the mechanics, but after having played the Bard, I've been a tad frustrated with this. The only reason a bard would want to poach spells is to have a few more instant cast spells that don't need concentration.
That's my .02. I like the class as it is and love how it multiclasses as well. If you don't want your wizard to be out-cast or out-classed, then choose bard and call him a storytelling wizard.
I think the Lore Bard is utterly fantastic, both as a single-class and as a multi-class character. The abilities are awesome and appealing for modelling a wide range of concepts, particularly if you're flexible on the fluff of Cutting Words.
The Valor Bard, on the other hand, suffers from the problem that its signature ability, Battle Magic, comes online very late. Combat Inspiration's appeal is limited by its horrible action economy. Extra Attack on a full spellcaster is nice, but Bard lacks spells (particularly bonus action spells) that synergize with it: on any given round you can be a warrior OR a spellcaster, but you can't really use one to enhance the other (at least not until Magical Secrets comes online at 10th). There are ways to make the subclass appealing at lower levels (e.g. adding Paladin 2 for smite, or focusing on grappling), but the subclass lacks the versitility of its sibling. As a result, I find Valor Bard to be a more useful tool than Lore Bard only for modelling certain specific concepts, and thus I consider the former somewhat unexciting. The subclass isn't bad or underpowered, but I'm going to pick Lore Bard for 9 concepts out of 10.
The Valor Bard, on the other hand, suffers from the problem that its signature ability, Battle Magic, comes online very late. Combat Inspiration's appeal is limited by its horrible action economy. Extra Attack on a full spellcaster is nice, but Bard lacks spells (particularly bonus action spells) that synergize with it: on any given round you can be a warrior OR a spellcaster, but you can't really use one to enhance the other (at least not until Magical Secrets comes online at 10th). There are ways to make the subclass appealing at lower levels (e.g. adding Paladin 2 for smite, or focusing on grappling), but the subclass lacks the versitility of its sibling. As a result, I find Valor Bard to be a more useful tool than Lore Bard only for modelling certain specific concepts, and thus I consider the former somewhat unexciting. The subclass isn't bad or underpowered, but I'm going to pick Lore Bard for 9 concepts out of 10.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
I'm not sure if I should vote in this thread, seeing how I haven't played or dmed a bard...
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mrpopstar
Sparkly Dude
The bard has been my favorite class since 2nd Edition.
I voted "mostly satisfied, a few minor tweaks is all I need/want."
Off the top of my head:
In terms of story, I care little for the concept of bardic colleges. 4th Edition really added something interesting by promoting the idea that each individual bard is inspired by a heroic virtue that he brings to life in himself and others.
I voted "mostly satisfied, a few minor tweaks is all I need/want."
Off the top of my head:
- the bard should be a half-caster
- the bard should have a narrow, well-curated spellcasting focus
- the bard should lose the Magical Secrets feature in favor of something else
- the bard should not need verbal or somatic components (unless there is an associated cost), but should always need musical notes or words of power (verbal components) to cast spells
In terms of story, I care little for the concept of bardic colleges. 4th Edition really added something interesting by promoting the idea that each individual bard is inspired by a heroic virtue that he brings to life in himself and others.
TwoSix
Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Bard is 3rd on my list of best designed classes. A strong but limited spell list (especially with the limited offensive choices) makes the "full caster" aspect not as overshadowing. Has the superior "spells known" mechanic (compared to the stronger but problematic preparation mechanic). Spell secrets is a wonderful mechanic to leverage D&D's list-based design. The subclasses are distinct, but both strong and defining. (Cutting Words is a particular standout.) Expertise and Bardic Inspiration help demonstrate the "knowledgeable" trope without needing to use spells, which is an attractive early level feature.
Make it Intelligence-based, and maybe swap in some warlock invocations for bardic inspiration, and it would be a superior generic spellcaster than the actual wizard class.
Make it Intelligence-based, and maybe swap in some warlock invocations for bardic inspiration, and it would be a superior generic spellcaster than the actual wizard class.
mrpopstar
Sparkly Dude
I do agree that the limited offensive choices make the "full caster" aspect more palatable, but I still argue for a reduced capacity at the higher levels of spellcasting. -- Currently, the bard feels more like a subclass of wizard than the inspired sum of knack and knowledge the archetype presents. Reducing his caster level would better contextualize his trope. #twocents
Cutting Words, I agree, is awesome and should serve as a standard for the bard's subclass features.
mrpopstar
Sparkly Dude
Perhaps it's my affection for the spoony, sidekick flair of the 3rd Edition bard, but I'd really love to see some sort of obnoxious, distracting assist that allows a bard within 5 feet of an enemy to grant an ally an extra 1d6 to an attack once per turn (as long as the ally doesn't have disadvantage on the attack). -- Something that plays up an emphasis on the Help action theme and the creation of inspired openings.
Not required, just something I always find myself wishing for if I was granted a fourth wish.
Not required, just something I always find myself wishing for if I was granted a fourth wish.
