D&D 5E [Poll] Cleric Satisfaction Survey

[Yunru]

Your justification as to why you have that assumption is based only on your individual gaming group. And how do you know this is common practice? What evidence do you have? I literally just got done telling you that when I was in the military, I worked with medivac (I was a UH-60 crewchief) and I was our platoons combat lifesaver. Medics are not more heavily armored. If anything, we were less armored. Our blackhawks didn't have heavy weapons or armor because it full of medical gear. The HUMVEEs didn't have any extra armor that were slotted for use by the medics. And these are in areas where there is no "rule of law". I can't even think of ANY historical reference where medics were more heavily armored. So I honestly have no idea why you have this assumption that it's "common practice." When I asked what that was based off of, you only gave me your own personal gaming group preference.

So you're saying you *weren't* just as armoured as the non-medics? That you were using Humvees while everyone else was in tanks?

I'm not saying they go out in platemail while everyone else is wearing combat vests, I'm saying they wear just as much as everyone else.

And again, I'm not forming any assumptions "based only on [my] gaming group." So please stop trying to claim I am.

 

[Sacrosanct]

So you're saying you *weren't* just as armoured as the non-medics? That you were using Humvees while everyone else was in tanks?

OK, this clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about on this topic. Armored vehicles didn't go from "regular HUMVEE" to "tank". Almost all of our HUMVEEs had additional armor added to them. The medic's vehicles were not any more armored than any other vehicle. In fact, compared to all the vehicles in a forward deployed area, theirs were the lightest armored. They didn't have APCs or tanks. Our medivac helicopters may have had M60 or M240 window guns, but they did not have ESSS pylons for additional armament.

I'm not saying they go out in platemail while everyone else is wearing combat vests, I'm saying they wear just as much as everyone else.

What you said is this:

Medics are one of the most heavily armoured units you can find

And that is in no way, shape, or form, accurate.

And again, I'm not forming any assumptions "based only on [my] gaming group." So please stop trying to claim I am.

Then come up with a reason why you would make such a claim that isn't based on your own personal gaming preference. You seem to have made a sweeping claim about how something is, and haven't explained why that is, especially when the evidence seems to run the exact opposite of what you're claiming.

 

[Yunru]

OK, this clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about on this topic. Armored vehicles didn't go from "regular HUMVEE" to "tank". Almost all of our HUMVEEs had additional armor added to them. The medic's vehicles were not any more armored than any other vehicle. In fact, compared to all the vehicles in a forward deployed area, theirs were the lightest armored. They didn't have APCs or tanks. Our medivac helicopters may have had M60 or M240 window guns, but they did not have ESSS pylons for additional armament.

Of course they don't. But then neither is the tiers of armour in DnD. Various humvees have various degrees of armour, but they'd all fall into the abstracted "humvee" category in DnD. Likewise, medics might not be wearing heavier armour than everyone else, but it would fall into the same category.

Additionally I note you continue to misquote me as having made points or given reasons that I have not, in fact, done.

The full quote, which you oh so helpfully ommit is:
Medics are one of the most heavily armoured units you can find (without compromising speed).

And oh look, all the 'holes' in my argument, such as your humvee being potentially the lightliest armoured fall neatly into that ommited statement.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Of course they don't. But then neither is the tiers of armour in DnD. Various humvees have various degrees of armour, but they'd all fall into the abstracted "humvee" category in DnD. Likewise, medics might not be wearing heavier armour than everyone else, but it would fall into the same category.

Additionally I note you continue to misquote me as having made points or given reasons that I have not, in fact, done.

The full quote, which you oh so helpfully ommit is:
Medics are one of the most heavily armoured units you can find (without compromising speed).

And oh look, all the 'holes' in my argument, such as your humvee being potentially the lightliest armoured fall neatly into that ommited statement.

An M1A1 and a Bradley FV have nearly the same speed as a HUMVEE (no significant difference in a battlefield arena). So....swing and a miss; medics don't use one of the most heavily armored options without compromising speed. And an armored Hummer is WAY more protective than one that's not. They wouldn't remotely be considered the "same armor" in D&D terms. A non armored HUMVEE (which medics use) offers virtually no protection. In D&D terms, it would be like clerics don't wear any armor period. Look man, I'm not trying to bust on your chops, but you clearly are trying to talk about a topic you're not very familiar with. You made a claim and presented it not only like it was some sort of objective truth, but that it was obvious. When I asked why you would make such a claim since all evidence points to the contrary, the only example you gave was because that's how your personal group plays.

What you said is wrong. No biggie. We're all mistaken at times. Just admit it and move on.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I have mixed feelings. If I was building a cleric from scratch, it would be pretty different, but for what was reasonable given 5e's nostalgia structure, it is pretty good: most of the subclasses play distinctly enough, higher levels have pretty nice "get out of jail free" abilities, there is a nice mix of spells, and for the price of a little DM bribery, you get the best summoning spell in 5e (or if you annoyed the DM, the worst summoning spell in 5e).

The main thing I would change is to make divine intervention trigger automatically when the cleric is reduced to 0 hit points (if this hasn't happened in the last 7 days). I think it would get more use, and let's face it, if the cleric is at 0 hps, the party is probably in trouble, so even a 50% chance of getting out of a bad situation is good for the party.

 

[Yunru]

Let's agree to disagree and switch tracks.
You have the Fighter seinging away at the monster, and the Healer there to support you.

If you take a sword to the chest you want the Healer to heal you. But for that the Healer needs to be within engagement range. Which means the Healer needs to be able to not get stabbed through the chest, hence armour.

Why isn't this seen much in the real world? Magic. Magic makes it so much simpler. You don't need complex operations, or works of precision, you just cast a spell. In real life, healing the wounded means (when possible) removing them from the theatre to a medical theatre. In DnD, it's taking part of 6 seconds to cast a spell.

 

[Helldritch]

I really see no problems with the cleric as it is now. Would I have done things differently? Probably. But the cleric as it stands now has nothing going strongly against him.

You hate to see a death cleric with healing spells? Then just ban these spells from his list, it would not be that much of a change as chances are that the death cleric will take aggressive spells anyways. But as written, the cleric is fine for most tables.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Why isn't this seen much in the real world? Magic. Magic makes it so much simpler. You don't need complex operations, or works of precision, you just cast a spell. In real life, healing the wounded means (when possible) removing them from the theatre to a medical theatre. In DnD, it's taking part of 6 seconds to cast a spell.

Now this is a very good reason for what you're arguing for; clerics needing to be decently armored.

 

[Bacon Bits]

My complaints about the cleric:

1. [Moderate] Destroy Undead is functionallty irrelevant given the CRs it affects, and it results in three dead levels. This should be rolled into Turn Undead entirely, and some other ability rolled out.
2. [Minor] Cleric 14 is depressing.
3. [Minor] Life cleric is much better than the alternatives. Good domain spells, good domain abilities. The others are mostly trade-offs.
4. [Minor] Spell selection still feels mostly boring, especially at higher levels, while lower level spells like bless can dominate play.

 

[Xeviat]

My complaints about the cleric:

1. [Moderate] Destroy Undead is functionallty irrelevant given the CRs it affects, and it results in three dead levels. This should be rolled into Turn Undead entirely, and some other ability rolled out.
2. [Minor] Cleric 14 is depressing.
3. [Minor] Life cleric is much better than the alternatives. Good domain spells, good domain abilities. The others are mostly trade-offs.
4. [Minor] Spell selection still feels mostly boring, especially at higher levels, while lower level spells like bless can dominate play.

Isn't 14 where the melee clerics get +1d8 damage again?


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