Polymorph (Monk/Troll Flurry and equipment) questions

[fujaiwei]

Could a monk polymorphed into a troll use his claws & rend in a flurry? Or would it be a choice to do claws/bite/rend or an unarmed flurry at (for 8th level) 2d8?

On a side note, when someone is polymorphed, what happens to their equipment? Does it grow to match their new size, or meld since it's not the correct size? The PHB says it the equipment grows ("...your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of earing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes non-functional.") So, would an Amulet of Natural Armor help a character polymorphed into a troll? How about weapons? Do they grow as well?

I have to explain the rules to my DM, so if you could provide the reason/what page/etc. for your advice, I'd be eternally grateful.

Also, sorry for asking a question that almost definitely has already been asked and answered. If you know/have a link to a similar thread, just let me know. Thanks

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The short answer is that he can use his claws and his rend attack (and his bite, if he has one) alongside his regular monk attacks whenever he uses the full-attack action.

He many not use them if he flurries, because he is limited to monk weapons and unarmed strikes when flurrying, and natural weapons are neither.

I'll see if I can hunt down the thread where I provided all the options for single attacks (standard action) and full attacks (full-round action) for a wildshaped druid / monk. It's a roughly analogous situation to what you have. If I can't, I'll just replicate it here.

When polymorphing, any wearable magic item (other than armor) will generally resize to fit the new form, if the new form is capable of wearing it. Weapons, armor, and shields do not generally resize (though there are magic properties that allow them to do so). A troll, being roughly humanoid in shape, can wear just about anything a human can: boots, rings, amulets, hats, etc. Most of your equipment, then, should resize. In specific, you will still benefit from your amulet of natural armor.

 

[dcollins]

You can't use claw/bite "in" a flurry; the only things allowed are unarmed attacks (specifically per monk table) or monk weapons. However, there is a FAQ entry saying you can add natural attacks on top of a flurry which some of us disagree with. Polymorphed equipment doesn't grow, so it would have to meld into the new form.

 

[glass]

Could a monk polymorphed into a troll use his claws & rend in a flurry? Or would it be a choice to do claws/bite/rend or an unarmed flurry at (for 8th level) 2d8?

Here we go again!

A troll monk has two choices.

If he does not flurry, he can attack with his unarmed strikes as usual, and with his natural weapons as secondary weapons.

If he does flurry, he obviously get more unarmed strikes, but can not use his natural attacks.

Obviously, the former will usually be better, especially at lower level where the flurry still carries a penalty.


glass.

 

[fujaiwei]

If I understand right:

an 8th level monk (BAB +6/+1) polymorphed into a troll could attack with a claw, a bite and 2 kama strikes. Or 2 claws, a bite, and a rend (if the claws hit). Or a flurry using monk weapons or unarmed attack damage (2d8).

And magic equipment would resize, but not weapons/armor/shields?

 

[Ninja-to]

Here we go again!

A troll monk has two choices.

If he does not flurry, he can attack with his unarmed strikes as usual, and with his natural weapons as secondary weapons.

If he does flurry, he obviously get more unarmed strikes, but can not use his natural attacks.

Obviously, the former will usually be better, especially at lower level where the flurry still carries a penalty.


glass.

Ok so what kind of penalties for an 8th level monk for example (if he did his monk flurry, + natural attacks as a Troll)?

 

[fujaiwei]

Ok so what kind of penalties for an 8th level monk for example (if he did his monk flurry, + natural attacks as a Troll)?

They said no flurry + natural attacks. But, it's possible to attack twice (+6/+1) then claw/claw/bite/rend, right? This makes Polymorph extremely buff, does it not?

 

[glass]

Ok so what kind of penalties for an 8th level monk for example (if he did his monk flurry, + natural attacks as a Troll)?

No penalties, he just can't do it. You can't use natural weapons in a flurry because they are not unarmed attacks or special monk weapons.


glass.

 

[glass]

If I understand right:

an 8th level monk (BAB +6/+1) polymorphed into a troll could attack with a claw, a bite and 2 kama strikes. Or 2 claws, a bite, and a rend (if the claws hit). Or a flurry using monk weapons or unarmed attack damage (2d8).

If he used kama, he couldn't use one of his claws (because he'd be using it to hold the kama), so he also couldn't rend. Otherwise, yes.

EDIT: Oh you took into account that he was using a claw to hold the kama. Sorry, I missed that on my first read.


glass.

 

[fujaiwei]

Oh, I forgot something - for this last situation to work, the monk would need to be carrying around a large sized kama, right? Because weapons don't resize. So, the most likely situation would be to attack with claw/claw/bite/rend or a flurry of blows. Unless the monk carried around a large-sized weapon...