Possible build advice; Defender

[jbear]

I'm wondering if my problem is understanding the role of a Defender. With my Warden on L4W, my goal was to make myself the only viable target leaving my party free to manuever around them and get the drop on my opponents... and that pretty much never worked out as I wanted(I either got dropped quick or they ignored my mark and rolled well and hit anyway).

With the Swordmage, I basically mark them and (if Assault) 'port over and slap them for doing that... then disengage, or (If Shielding) just mark and leave, ignoring them pretty much indefinitely?

A shielding swordmage can easily 'engage' two opponents VERY effectively. I guess the Assault version can as well but it's power selection is inferior (imo).

It does this with some pretty cool at will powers. Booming Blade or Frigid Blade are two pretty good examples. Mark enemy (ideally 2 away from you so you can move away without an OA) and then move to engage a second enemy landing something like Booming Blade (if they move away Boom, extra damage) or Frigid Blade (severly reducing their movement). The second enemy isn't marked but it has some strong reasons to stay where it is. If your team positions themselves correctly then you'll become its only viable target. And if they are real smart they'll get between you and your Aegis Mark, as his attacks against them will be reduced to gentle wrist slaps, and if he comes after you then hopefully he'll provoke a few OAs and get cut down before he can even reach you.

When you start picking up some White Lotus Feats, well, you effectively give your targets a Lose lose situation. Attack someone else and suffer, attack me and suffer as well. That is why I'd go human, basically to get the extra at will and an extra feat. You lose 2 points to your CON (which sucks) but I think it's a fair trade.

You can still effectively multiclass into Wizard and pick up an At Will wizards power ... and with the Essentials Powers coming out there are some pretty interesting options!

 

[jbear]

Some people just don't "get" the Swordmage and only can think about/play it one way, especially when they think of the party in a box.

This is a fairly uninsightful comment. Who and what are you talking about? If you have an alternative way of understanding how to play a swordmage, then share it or offer a counter point to the observation that you disagree with.

Surely that would be more useful to the OP?

 

[Mengu]

But it is basically impossible to COMPLETELY making you the only target.

Just wanted to emphasize this. Putting yourself in the way of danger is what you do as a defender, but remember, there are monsters on the table that are able to be a challenge for a party of 5-6. If you think you can take them all on by yourself and survive their focused fire, you're in for disappointment.

Strikers have plenty of ways to avoid attacks or punish enemies for attacking them, controllers can help keep stuff off everyone, and leaders can usually take a few hits. Everyone has hit points, everyone has healing surges, everyone has defensive options.

Playing any 4e character is a resource management game. In the case of a defender, you want to take the lion's share of the damage, but you must keep in mind the hit points of your allies are another party resource that can be used. It's actually partly the rest of your party's job to make sure you're not taking all the harassment, since that can happen due to positioning when you're facing a double line enemy formation with all melee and ranged attacks coming your way. If your warlock drops a Hunger of Hadar on top of the melee line, blocking view of the ranged enemy line, suddenly all the enemies will need to break their formation either to not stay in the zone or to get line of sight, and your party can start focusing their fire, taking enemies down one by one.

Also on the topic of swordmage marking, marking one target, then moving away to attack another is only one tactic. I wouldn't get too stuck on that though. Positioning for a defender can be very important. If marking and moving away from the mark would compromise a good position, it's not something you want to do. It's possible your warlock is counting on a flank, or your monk is hoping you'll keep the enemy line in place so he can attack all of them. When a defender moves, he should be looking for a stronger position, more conducive to protecting and assisting allies.

 

[Herschel]

The Swordmage plays differently from other defenders. They're more versatile and their powers mean as much as their mark, if properly chosen. Dimensional Vortex is an awesome power for defending your allies, for example, but has nothing to do with your mark. In many ways, you are then engaging multiple enemies who aren't adjacent to you. As an example: five party members vs. 5 baddies, say two Frost Giants and three Winter Wolves. If they all bunch together then a "tank" can do well but if they spread out a Swordmage can have greater effect. Say there's a giant left, giant/wolf center-left, wolf center-right and wolf right. If they form a crescent and attack, the Swordmage can mark a wolf on the right, step up to the center-left group and still get off a Dimensional Vortex if the guy from the left charges. Sure, he may not get to port or nerf the wolf, but he still gave it -2 to attack, is prime target for two baddies and just dropped the other giant in with the batch and put a hurt on his ally and now is essentially engaged with three baddies while the allies focus fire behind him. It has far better range than Come & Get It for re-arranging teh battlefield.

 

[Theroc]

Found out what the 4th player is. A Kalashtar Eagle Shaman.

 

[Herschel]

Another thing about Swordmages is they have an at-will that doesn't look like much on paper, but is simply the best defender at-will in the game: Lightning Lure. Pulling (especially aura-wielding) baddies away from allies and giving you a close-range attack even when imobilized and out of teleports is a beautiful thing. In 15 levels it has been incredibly useful so many times I'd have a hard time counting the cases.

 

[Theroc]

Well, I am not too familiar on hybrid classes, and as the ONLY defender, I'd feel leery about hybriding into anything besides another defender(Which isn't too wise with a Swordmage due to Stat lineups not matching well at all...)

I've pretty much settled on giving the Swordmage a spin, just not sure what kind. Leaning towards Shielding. With that in mind, there aren't many well supported races to pick as none have an optimal stat lineup.

Can anyone help me weigh the pros and cons of
Humans
Eladrin
Shadar-Kai
Deva
And Githzerai
?

I may go Genasi, but that'd only be if I decide assault for some reason.

 

[Shin Okada]

I will try,

Humans
*Pros
Extra At-Will Power, Feat & skill. Higher NADs. Though a human can gain only one ability score boost, a swordmage can, basically, live only with Int. Plentiful of good racial feats regarding action point and saving throw. Action Surge will work best when you use a close power. At lower level, Arcane Reserves feat will be useful, too.
*Cons
Does not have some cool racial powers as others (essential version can have one instead of one extra at-will. But that one is not so wonderful, though useful).

Eladrin
*Pros
High primary stat (Int). Slightly Higher Dex is not bad for a defender as it is good thing to have a higher initiative modifier. Also has an extra skill (Religion, maybe?) Fey Step is a really great racial power. Eladrin Soldier feat may be great, too. Because after the upcoming update, Weapon Focus will not give you bonus to damages of Implement attacks. There are some other cool Eladrin Swordmage (or Arcane character) feats, too.
*Cons
I can't think of any.

Shadar-Kai
*Pros
High Int. High Dex. Similar to Eladrin but Shadow Jaunt is basically inferior to Fey Step. But bonus to athletics, fort defense & death saves are suited for a defender.
*Cons
As a race only in Dragon, not so many racial feats are provided.

Deva
*Pros
High Int. Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes is an always-useful racial power, though not so wonderful. Necrotic/Radiant resistance, especially the former, may be useful reasonably often. But it depends on what kind of opponents you meet.
*Cons
There are only few Deva Swordmage/Arcane Character feats.

And Githzerai
*Pros
High Int. +2 racial bonus to initiative checks. +2 to Acrobatics and Athletics will be useful for a defender. Telekinetic Leap is, though not as good as teleports for moving yourself, a very good racial power. Because you can move an ally.
*Cons
Hmmm..... ugly?

 

[Theroc]

And Githzerai
*Pros
High Int. +2 racial bonus to initiative checks. +2 to Acrobatics and Athletics will be useful for a defender. Telekinetic Leap is, though not as good as teleports for moving yourself, a very good racial power. Because you can move an ally.
*Cons
Hmmm..... ugly?

You must have been thinking Githyanki. The Githzerai racial power in the PHB3 is Iron Mind. Immediate interrupt to give +2 to all defenses TENT.

The rest is rather useful, though. Thank you Okada. It's got me leaning toward Githzerai a bit. For some reason I just don't find humans appealing for the most part. Not sure why.