Power Attack, Two Handed Weapons and Crit

[Lasher Dragon]

I agree, the new PA is not broken. It is in fact a dual-edged sword. The last character death I had was from an ogre with a huge greataxe, using power attack, and he got a crit. 1 hit kill LOL it was bad. Oh well, dems da rules.

 

[BryonD]

So, to clearly answer the original posters question:

• First calculate the regular damage from a power attack.
• Then apply the crit multiplier.

You have been doing it wrong. Your player has the right of it.

Put another way: Power Attack does not "double" the bonus when using a 2 handed weapon. It adds the bonus twice. That's a big difference.

Right, I suggested that possibility.

So....no need to use the multiplier rules.

It's quite clear, when read slowly.

Certainly. But it wouldn't be the first time that the official answer and the "quite clear" answer were different.

 

[BryonD]

I haven't had any trouble with two-handed power attack as written in 3.5.

Back when it came out I told my players that we would only try this one on a trial basis. It turned out to be no problem at all.

Heck, sometimes it gives my bad guys a fighting chance.

Yep.

 

[Nail]

But it wouldn't be the first time that the official answer and the "quite clear" answer were different.

No arguement from me.....

 

[BryonD]

No arguement from me.....

 

[frisbeet]

I'll pimp the power attack spreadsheet on my site (signature). It's free and you can mess with it as you please. The power attack calculator sheet lets you parameterize your non-epic character by level, ability, and feat with PHB weapon selection and magical enchantment. Then it calculates by brute force the average full attack or standard attack (your choice) damage/round against ACs 10-50, taking into account crits and DR (DR optional), for every available PA choice, and spits out the optimum. Here's an example. Medium-sized Barbarian 20, Str 34, Raging (brings Str to 42), Wields medium-sized +3 Speed Flaming Burst Scythe, with Scythe feats of Proficiency, Focus, & Improved Critical.

AC   normal D   best PA   PA D
10	222.06	20	464.13
11	222.06	20	459.19
12	222.06	20	454.25
13	222.06	20	449.31
14	222.06	20	444.38
15	222.06	20	434.50
16	222.06	20	424.63
17	222.06	20	414.75
18	222.06	20	404.88
19	222.06	20	395.00
20	222.06	19	384.60
21	222.06	18	374.20
22	222.06	17	363.80
23	222.06	16	353.40
24	222.06	15	343.00
25	222.06	14	332.60
26	222.06	13	322.20
27	222.06	12	311.80
28	222.06	11	301.40
29	222.06	10	291.00
30	219.73	9	280.60
31	217.39	8	270.20
32	215.05	8	260.07
33	212.71	7	250.06
34	210.38	7	240.32
35	205.70	6	230.70
36	201.03	6	221.34
37	196.35	5	212.11
38	191.68	5	203.15
39	187.00	4	194.31
40	179.99	4	185.74
41	172.98	3	177.29
42	165.96	2	168.84
43	158.95	1	160.39
44	151.94	0	151.94
45	140.25	0	140.25
46	128.56	0	128.56
47	116.59	0	116.59
48	107.24	0	107.24
49	97.89	0	97.89
50	88.54	0	88.54

 

[TerraDave]

don't forget the str bonus too. OUCH.

As an aside, you need to do pretty massive damage on a crit to justify using a weapon like the Falchion (though even then it is hard to justify)....though I do use the houserule of 1.5 for 2 handed and .5 for offhand when power attacking

 

[Nail]

I'll pimp the power attack spreadsheet on my site (signature).

FWIW, let me throw on my support for this particular spreadsheet. It's the one I use (and annoy my DM with ). It's excellent.

 

[ForceUser]

As an aside, you need to do pretty massive damage on a crit to justify using a weapon like the Falchion (though even then it is hard to justify)....though I do use the houserule of 1.5 for 2 handed and .5 for offhand when power attacking

I disagree. Any weapon with a natural 18-20 threat range is not to be dismissed so lightly. Once character are past the newbie levels, a weapon's damage dice becomes far less important than a character's accumulated damage bonuses. For instance, my 12th-level fighter is specialized in the falchion, and the weapon's 2d4 base damage is nearly irrelevant--what matters much more is the character's +12 modifier to damage (which, more often than not, is more like +22 thanks to Power Attack). When you're doing 2d4+22 damage, you can take or leave the roughly 5 extra points of damage the weapon itself brings per hit. It's just gravy at that point. What's much more important about the falchion is that by the time you have Improved Critical, you threaten 1 out of 4 attacks, and convert most of those, which means you crit about 30% of the time. In those cases, my fighter is now doing 4d4+44, and still, the weapon's damage is gravy--it's all about what the character brings to the damage, not the weapon itself.

I am so over greatswords.

 

[KarinsDad]

I disagree. Any weapon with a natural 18-20 threat range is not to be dismissed so lightly. Once character are past the newbie levels, a weapon's damage dice becomes far less important than a character's accumulated damage bonuses.

...

I am so over greatswords.

This is mostly applicable only to Fighters (and possibly Barbarians).

Most classes cannot get enough feats (even Paladins and Rangers unless they focus solely on melee combat) to get their extra damage high enough to justify an increased crit range weapon.

So, it is not just newbie's, it is anyone who is not solely focused as a heavy damage dealing melee combatant.