D&D (2024) Power Sources

[Frozen_Heart]

I really hate how it's now basically 'pick from the wizard list for bards', 'pick from the cleric list' for paladins, and 'pick from the druid list' for rangers.

One of my main dislikes of eldritch knight and arcane trickster was that they didn't get suiting spells for their role, and were just stuck with the wizard list. Ranger and Paladin were two classes which I considered the example of how to do a half casters list.

Both of them had spells which suited them, and kept them from overlapping with their full caster siblings. Likewise, their spells were not accessible to the full casters, which kept them from doing the half caster job but better.

Likewise, Bard having its own list made it slightly less of just a 'wizard with a guitar'.

 

[Mephista]

I get the feeling that psionics are going to be fully integrated into Arcane magic now. Sorcerers basically ate the Psion with Abberant Mind, and GOO warlocks are a thing.

I half suspect that we'll be seeing the Feywild and Shadowfell shift from being echoes to being the old Positive/Negative Elemental planes. The druids have far too much of a Fey and beast magic theme for the Primal Magic connection to Elemental Planes to suddenly not have fey in it. It makes much more sense this way, imho.

Ki, along with rage and the various Fighter dice, is probably going to be just... martial stuff. Not associated with any power source; they're not spells, after all.

Barbarians had wild magic and shapeshifting in Tashas, and its always been hinted at being primal class. Tashas gave them wild magic and shapeshifting too.

Monks... I can't help but think that, while they'll probably be associated with "Divine" power source if anything, any spells that a subclass grants (I'm looking at you, Shadow and 4Ele) will be unique to said subclass and not associated with drawing from specific spell lists.

Fighters have lots of subclasses that seem to draw from Arcane stuff, so they'll probably have an association with Arcane even if they don't have spells exactly. Rogue... they share more in common with Bard, and I fully expect the Bard class to change how it does spells, the current does not work well.

 

[Krachek]

It will stay like it is : cool fluff without mechanical restraints.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The idea of the "Power Source" is just giving a name to a thing that some people care about but that most people don't even concern themselves with.

Bards produce magic via their performance of music. Warlocks produce magic due to the pact they've made with the devil. Wizards produce magic by remembering funny words and hand gestures they have written down in a big leather-bound book.

The fact that that the GAME calls all of these things "Arcane Magic" is virtually meaningless. The name of this group of "stuff" doesn't matter to most people. Now if it matters to you in your own personal world-building then maybe you might do something with the term... but most other people couldn't care less. Same with Druids-- "Primal" magic or "Divine" magic? Whatever. The book can call it whatever they want. But all I know is that Druids cast specific types of spells, many of which are ones that other characters in the party can't. Or won't. And what you CALL those spells has no effect on anything within the game unless you choose to make it mean something in the game.

Are 'Sorcery Points' and 'Ki' the same thing-- the same so-called "Power Source"? The answer of course is that it doesn't matter. Most people don't care. Some of you might, and some of you may say they are both representing the same thing. And yes, there are a few of you out there who will come up with this Grand Unification Theory of magic for your own world and how every class has a way to use it and how those classes overlap with each other and where the magic comes from yadda yadda yadda... but that's you. None of the rest of the D&D gaming populace hold any concern with any of that.

So just make up whatever world-building decisions you want and slot things in as you so please and call them and categorize them however you want. And the rest of us will just ignore it like we do any other stuff that appears written down in the books that we don't care to use.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I do not think that they will explicitly refer to power sources as 4e did while continuing to draw inspiration from that pool but with fluffier justification. Do not expect grid filling though. They seem to avoid that.

 

[Dausuul]

It will stay like it is : cool fluff without mechanical restraints.

The fact that that the GAME calls all of these things "Arcane Magic" is virtually meaningless.

Have you guys looked at the playtest packets? It does come with mechanical constraints and it is meaningful.

There is no longer any such thing as a bard spell list or a warlock spell list. There is an arcane spell list. Bards get "arcane spells, limited to these four schools." Wizards get "arcane spells, all of them*." The only way to have a spell which bards get and wizards don't is via special class feature. And once the PHB is published, the class features of bards are set... which means future sourcebooks can't ever release a spell which is available to all bards but not to all wizards.

*Technically we don't know this for sure, since we have yet to see the wizard playtest packet. But we do have the arcane spell list, and it consists of the wizard spell list with an "Arcane" sticker slapped over the word "Wizard."

I do not think that they will explicitly refer to power sources as 4e did...

The playtest packets already refer to them. Unless you mean the specific term "power source?"

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Have you guys looked at the playtest packets? It does come with mechanical constraints and it is meaningful.

There is no longer any such thing as a bard spell list or a warlock spell list. There is an arcane spell list. Bards get "arcane spells, limited to these four schools." Wizards get "arcane spells, all of them*." The only way to have a spell which bards get and wizards don't is via special class feature. And once the PHB is published, the class features of bards are set... which means future sourcebooks can't ever release a spell which is available to all bards but not to all wizards.

*Technically we don't know this for sure, since we have yet to see the wizard playtest packet. But we do have the arcane spell list, and it consists of the wizard spell list with an "Arcane" sticker slapped over the word "Wizard."


The playtest packets already refer to them. Unless you mean the specific term "power source?"

Power sources and the way that 4e used it.
Primal Spell list is a mixture of Arcane and Divine spells. Even though the Bard can only prepare from the Arcane list (restricted by school) they still have a number of Divine Spells as part of songs of restoration.
I expect that there will be spells from outside the primary preparation list as part of knows and prepared spells from class features and subclasses.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Power sources and the way that 4e used it.
Primal Spell list is a mixture of Arcane and Divine spells. Even though the Bard can only prepare from the Arcane list (restricted by school) they still have a number of Divine Spells as part of songs of restoration.
I expect that there will be spells from outside the primary preparation list as part of knows and prepared spells from class features and subclasses.

Really hope we get alternate 'songs of' features. Like the cleric orders.

I hate forcing every single bard to be a healer bard.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Have you guys looked at the playtest packets? It does come with mechanical constraints and it is meaningful.

There is no longer any such thing as a bard spell list or a warlock spell list. There is an arcane spell list. Bards get "arcane spells, limited to these four schools." Wizards get "arcane spells, all of them*." The only way to have a spell which bards get and wizards don't is via special class feature. And once the PHB is published, the class features of bards are set... which means future sourcebooks can't ever release a spell which is available to all bards but not to all wizards.

I do not consider the idea that the Bard needs to have spells that Wizards don't to actually be meaningful. In fact, I don't consider ANY spell that only one class gets to be meaningful in any way. Because what matters is what actually shows up and is played at the table.

The paladin has had their own set of unique Smite spells this entire time. And speaking personally... I have never seen a single one ever get cast in any game I have run. So the fact the paladin class has these unique spells has been absolutely meaningless to the game. And thus the idea that Clerics might now be able to cast them because they are both in this so-called 'Divine Spell List' is just as meaningless. Another class is now going to be allowed to not cast a number of spells.

Obviously some of you feel different. That's fine. But it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Dausuul]

I do not consider the idea that the Bard needs to have spells that Wizards don't to actually be meaningful. In fact, I don't consider ANY spell that only one class gets to be meaningful in any way. Because what matters is what actually shows up and is played at the table.

The paladin has had their own set of unique Smite spells this entire time. And speaking personally... I have never seen a single one ever get cast in any game I have run. So the fact the paladin class has these unique spells has been absolutely meaningless to the game. And thus the idea that Clerics might now be able to cast them because they are both in this so-called 'Divine Spell List' is just as meaningless. Another class is now going to be allowed to not cast a number of spells.

Obviously some of you feel different. That's fine. But it's all a matter of perspective.

If you only look at the spells that suck and never see use, of course it doesn't matter. Try putting find greater steed on the cleric list.