(Pre-Proposal) Arcane Power

Oni

First Post
You can take a free action on any turn, see PHB pg. 267.

The power doesn't work very well if it is an immediate action because you only get one of those per round, which would make it pretty crummy and probably the reason it says free action in the first place since you would only be able to attack one creature once and that's it.

Probably the best solution and I figure the incoming errata this needs would be something limiting a creature to being hit once per turn with this power. Maybe adapting the trigger line to read.

Trigger: A creature that has not be hit by this power this turn starts its turn in the planar gateway or enters a square adjacent to the planar gateway.

Or adding a clause to the hit section saying you may not hit the same creature more than once in a turn.
 

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JoeNotCharles

First Post
BTW, this is amusing: the Illusion powers from Dragon 364 were reprinted in Arcane Power, but they screwed a bunch of them up! The errata for Arcane Power is almost all for the illusions, and it just reverts them to the versions in Dragon.

So, with the errata applies, here are the changes Arcane Power makes to the illusion powers we've already approved. I've bolded all the nerfs that I consider significant, as opposed to clarifications:

Grasping Shadows: now has the "Zone" keyword

Phantasmal Terrain: now has the "Implement" keyword; increased movement cost for difficult terrain applies to everyone, not just enemies

Spectral Hound: no longer has the "Implement" keyword; must start in an unoccupied square; gives a +1 power bonus to "all defenses" instead of "AC and all defenses" (I think that's the same thing, right?); sustain is reworded to be much clearer

Enemies Abound: "you and your allies treat the target as an ally for the purposes of flanking" instead of "you and your allies can treat the target as an ally..." (I don't think there's any situation where you would choose not to treat someone as an ally for flanking, is there?)

Illusory Wall: can make an attack only when moves adjacent to the wall, not when it starts its turn adjacent; the attack result only effects the enemy for its current turn (used to be "save ends")

I don't much like the new wording of Illusory Wall. Suppose there's a wall between square A and square B, and I plan the following actions:

Turn 1: move to square A, attempt to move to square B (assume I fail)
Turn 2...N: attempt to move to square B again (keep trying until I succeed)
Turn N+1: go do things on another part of the battlefield
Turn N+2: move to square B, attempt to move to square A

In the old version:

Turn 1: The caster gets an attack as I move adjacent to the wall. If it succeeds, I can't cross the wall until I make a saving throw. Assume it succeeds, so I can't move to B yet. I get a save at the end of my turn.
Turn 2...N: The caster gets another attack as I start my turn adjacent to the wall. SIX cases:
(1) I passed my save last turn, caster chose not to attack: I can cross the wall but I am still affected
(2) I passed my save last turn, caster attacked and hit: I need to keep saving
(3) I passed my save last turn, caster attacked and missed: I can cross the wall and am no longer affected
(4) I failed my save last turn, caster chose not to attack: I need to keep saving
(5) I failed my save last turn, caster attacked and hit: I need to keep saving (I believe multiple successful attacks don't stack here)
(6) I failed my save last turn, caster attacked and missed: I can cross the wall and am no longer affected
Turn N+2: Return to square B: if I crossed the wall due to case (1), the caster gets a new attack as on turn 1. If I crossed the wall due to case (3) or (6), I can cross immediately

In the new version:

Turn 1: The caster gets an attack as I move adjacent to the wall. If it succeeds, I can't cross the wall this turn. Assume it succeeds, so I can't cross to B yet.
Turn 2...N: The caster does not get an attack, since I didn't move adjacent this turn. Since I wasn't attacked, I can automatically cross to B immediately.
Turn N+2: Return to square B; the caster gets a new attack as on turn 1 since he hasn't missed with an attack yet.

That's way less complicated, but also MUCH weaker - it only delays me by 1 turn at most! And also makes no sense - I can push through the wall without breaking the illusion completely?

I suggest accepting the Arcane Power version, but "Whenever an enemy moves adjacent to the wall" to "Whenever an enemy moves adjacent to or starts its turn adjacent to the wall". That way I'd have no obvious way to move through the wall until the caster fails an attack, which makes me immune to it until the end of the encounter. (Although I could get through the wall by having an ally slide me on his turn, or something similar.)
 

JoeNotCharles

First Post
You can take a free action on any turn, see PHB pg. 267.

The power doesn't work very well if it is an immediate action because you only get one of those per round, which would make it pretty crummy and probably the reason it says free action in the first place since you would only be able to attack one creature once and that's it.

Oh, you're right.

In that case, I would probably just change the trigger to clarify that it isn't triggered by forced movement. Although your way would probably be more fun; my way doesn't let a fighter Tide of Iron an enemy into the portal for the wizard to follow up. Yeah, I like your way better.
 

elecgraystone

First Post
An easy way to fix planar gateway is to change the hit line to this.

HIT: 3d6+Int mod damage and you PUSH the target 3 squares.

That way you can't end the creatures movement in an adjacent square from the movement the hit gives you. ;)
 

renau1g

First Post
Wait...Arcane Power reprinted a bunch of stuff already out in Dragon? Man that's stupid, I'm glad I didn't buy it.
 


elecgraystone

First Post
The dragon was more or less a preview of Arcane Power. Saying 'Man that's stupid' would apply to the PHB2 since barbarian was reprinted right? Or Martial powers since tempest fighters were reprinted? :p
 

nerdytenor

First Post
I gave AP the once-over. My first impressions.


  • Some cool stuff, but not as compelling as Martial Power.
  • Nothing uber-broken jumped out.
  • Lots and lots of errors that were obvious upon first reading (did they skip the copy-editing on this one?) - I haven't checked the errata yet.
 

CaBaNa

First Post
Just want to point out that there has already been some errata for AP.

Also one thing I didn't see errated and I noticed right away is the Planar Gateway power from the Bond Summoner PP. Unless I've missed something RAW it's an encounter insta-gib on anything that gets affected by it.

If its a free action and anytime a creature enters and adjacent square and it allows you to slide the creature as part of the attack it creates its own infinite loop as long as you hit.


It's an encounter power.

The Free Action can only be used once per encounter, so no infinite loop.

You choose when it goes off, it isn't an immediate reaction or interrupt because you may want it to go off when your team member leaves the burst.

Hope that helps.:D

EDIT: upon rereading the power, I'm not sure what it is meant to do, or how it works.
 
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JoeNotCharles

First Post
The dragon was more or less a preview of Arcane Power. Saying 'Man that's stupid' would apply to the PHB2 since barbarian was reprinted right? Or Martial powers since tempest fighters were reprinted? :p

On the one hand, these weren't marked "Preview" the way the class previews were (unless I'm forgetting).

On the other, Arcane Power introduces a complete illusionist build for wizards instead of just a handful of powers, and it would be weird to require people to go find an old issue of Dragon to get powers for that build.

On the gripping hand, I've only spotted the illusionist powers as being reprints and there's what, 5 of them? So not a big deal.
 

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