Preorder, cancel, preorder, cancel etc

[Wulf Ratbane]

This isn't new since the advent of online retailers, either. The owner of the local hobby store (there were no FLGSs at the time, D&D was sold at toy and hobby stores) complained about the lower price a larger store charged for the books so the kids who played in his store didn't buy the books from him, but instead went to the other store. The other store could charge less because they were the regional distributor from whom the local store owner bought his books.

On a similar scale, I know at least one gamer who is in contact with enough gamer friends that he "owns" a completely virtual "game store." He sends out an email blast once a month, gathers orders, and is able to place big enough orders that he orders direct from the distributor, and receives the retailer discount (about 40%). He makes no profit, and passes the savings on to his gaming friends.

There is nothing at all "unfair" or "fishy" about collective buying power.

 

[joela]

separate thread

OT but interesting... perhaps we should make it another thread.

I agree.

 

[Harshax]

It's definitely not about price for me, I have disposable income. I'll agree that Curt and Games+ is an exemplary example of an FLGS. Curt is the iconic game store owner while at the same time being just a stand-up nice guy. In fact, I still have fond memories of being applauded after losing an auction over a RingWorld Boxed set a few years ago. So yeah, if I change my mind, I'm heading out to Mount Prospect.

My friend and I were talking about this yesterday, and it seems to us that while D&D has evolved quite a bit from the times we played B2 in the early 80's, it's still unfair for us to have to wait to play a complete game. With all the different settings, and iterations of fantasy and science fantasy, it's also unfair for me to expect D&D to come fully packaged to me in June.

To be honest, not having druids in the core PH pisses me off. Getting it in another book means more shelf and table space is getting consumed just to run my game. I was willing to consider DDI, because I recently caught up with one of my old gaming buddies who now lives in Hawaii, but as a professional geek for the NYSE, I must confess, I don't really like computers. It pays more than just the bills, but I don't want to spend anymore time at the console.

I hate to say this, because I don't like being pointlessly anachronistic (it's not cool or retro, but the best edition of D&D was 1E. Not because of the mechanics. Seriously, after 30 years of evolution, 1E is an Edsel compared to how we game today. But because it was concise, in the sense that you really did have everything you needed for play in 3 books. (That's not entirely true, the Fiend Folio was mandatory IMO)

I cast an imaginary eye at my bygone bookcase of RPG's; game systems and settings alike; and what I remember most is killing orcs and chewing bubblegum and I was always out of bubblegum. I don't need a new system for killing orcs.

What I want, is something more along the lines of the Guide to the Ethereal/Inner/Astral Plane. Crunch [mostly] without mechanics. Everyone can have their Fourth Edition, I just want the setting. A Greyhawk riff of Harnworld - no mechanics. That would totally rule.

 

[drjones]

Nowadays I order almost all of my books online. Not because I wouldnt send money to the local gaming store to keep them in business but because the local gaming store (Sci Fi City) is managed/owned and run by a bunch of jerks that wouldnt know customer service if it bit them in the butt. (Orlando, Florida)

Growing up I spent all the money I could beg/borrow (and in the case of loose change, steal) on dnd stuff from a Madison, WI store but I still dreaded going there because half the workers were stereotypical nerd-bastards who condescended like it was going out of style.

Now the town has two stores that seem to do pretty well (at least Misty mountain which I live nearest to) and I have not had any negative/stereotypical experiences for a long time. Also when I buy cases of minis their discounted cost is almost the same as buying online with shipping added in so it is not hard to support them.

But this is all off topic, re: order oscillation. Sounds kinda compulsive to me. This isn't a new gaming machine or tickets to Striesand, if you have any reason to believe you might not want it just wait and buy it later, it'll be all over the place.

Edit: Unless this thing gets on Oprah, then were screwed.

 

[TerraDave]

I just have this nagging feeling that what I *really, really, really want is the D&D milieu. I want Vecna (especially the Hand and Eye), githyanki, Demogorgon, Orcus, Tharizdun and Lolth. A campaign against Giants, Kuo-Toa, and Drow. I want Gruumsh, Beholders, Ilithid, and Displacer Beasts.

That's what Dungeons & Dragons is. I want to play Dungeons & Dragons. I own Dungeons & Dragons.

I think that after 5.5 editions of D&D, I can't deal with another bout of love / hate/ houserule with a new triad of rulebooks.

Have fun storming the castle!

No one is scaling that castle, its the problem with thread titles, but I will at least look at it.

Of course you have these things and like these things. So do I. And so will 4E (most have already been mentioned).

But I do think mechanics matter. And from what I have seen (and played a tiny little bit) 4E will be a funner game to fight orcs then other editions.

 

[Kyrail]

Cripes, just realized that Amazon won't get me my books until the 17-23.

Waiting 2 weeks after release? I dunno about that.

Anyone know an online venue that will ship earlier?

Edit: Ah. Apparently if you choose free shipping they put you in the back of queue and you have to wait 4 more days, plus longer shipping time.

 

[mrtomsmith]

Just want to add another shoutout to Games Plus. Great place. I wish I was still in the Greater Chicagoland Area, but I'm now in sunny CA with no game store within a 30 minute radius. So I'm buying from Amazon.

 

[Stormtalon]

I have a pre-order in myself -- with my FLGS. One, I like 'em and they're good folks to buy from. Two, I want my books on the 6th and so don't want to trust the vagaries of the shipping system, or the slightly seedy nature of the neighborhood in which I currently live.

Bonus points will be given if the store actually has 'em in stock in time for a midnight purchase as was hinted at in a previous thread. Full prices for a purchase at 12:01 AM June 6? That's a service Amazon simply cannot provide and cannot beat. While it's not guaranteed they'll have 'em in time, the chance they might is just too good to pass up, sez I.

 

[Dathalas]

I cancelled my pre-order from Amazon and pre-ordered them from my FLGS.

How the heck am I supposed to compete with these on-line price-gougers who get some rediculous bulk discount off of WotC and then make about $3 a sale but sell hundreds of thousands of them, while I'm stuck with the stupid "suggested retail" of *** $104.95 *** or discount heavily and go out of business?

Fitz, you're not competing with those guys at all. You're working under a completely different business model. So use your strengths to win those pre-orders, just like my FLGS did.

What are those strengths? Here are the ones my FLGS used to get my pre-order:

(1) The store manager took time to talk to me and treat me as a friend. We just chatted about 4e D&D for a little while and then he told me the store was going to participate in the D&D Game Day.

(2) He told me he was going to open the store up at midnight on June 6 so we could get the books as soon as they could be sold.

(3) He offered me a place to host the 4e D&D Meetup I'm starting here. He even offered to keep the store open an extra hour just so we could play longer every week.

(4) He's passing business cards out for the D&D Meetup for us.

Now there's no way that store could compete with Amazon on price, but they didn't have to. The store manager overwhelmed me with friendliness and great customer service. That's worth the extra money I'll be paying for the core books.

And I'll be sure to tell my friends about my experience at the store. I've never once told a friend how great it was to order from Amazon.

Good luck, Fitz!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I congratulate you on figuring something else out, it's just amazing to me that you'd still be complaining about this after dealing with it for the entire 15 years of your existence.

Wow. You make one comment and everyone acts like it's all you ever talk about... that's the internet for you.

It was simply the shock of seeing someone report that they were paying less RETAIL than I'm getting the book for WHOLESALE. I don't mind having to compete retail vs retail, but it's getting a bit rediculous.

For those who asked: There are several reasons why I would still get the books from a distributor:
I'll get them on time. (In fact I expect I'll have them by the 4th of June, I just won't be allowed to SELL them until the sixth. But I will be able to READ them! )
Distributor discounts are based on VOLUME. If I take something like my orders for D&D 4E out of my regular distribution order, I will pay more for EVERYTHING ELSE I carry.
And last, (and certainly least) it would continue to support this kind of thing.

I'm also not mentioning the fact that I'm a Canadian retailer, and even though WotC still prints a higher Canadian price om them (I know KotS says $29.95 US and $34 Canadian) AND our distributors still charge us an inflated exchange rate, I've been selling all my stock for US prices since October when the dollar went to par.

Seriously though, if it is possible to sell all three books for $55 US and still make a profit, why wouldn't WotC simply make the RETAIL PRICE lower? It's not "capitalism" that I have a problem with, it's the degree to which the "playing field" is becoming skewed.

Also, for those who I seem to have made concerned: I'm not actually WORRIED about it, I will still be happily selling many, MANY copies of the 4E books. I've demoed the game to over 40 individual people in 14 demo playtests and I've already sold the boxed set to almost all of them. This is only a fraction of the people I expect will buy it off the shelves. I run games at the store on a regular basis and after doing all those demos I expect to run games for even more people in the future.

I DO understand how to run my store, it's just the under $55 that momentarily got the better of me.

BTW: I'm really sorry for derailing this thread...

Fitz

PS to the person who mentioned what jerks their LGS has: Yes, sadly, there are far too many of this sort involved in geek retail. Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons is not made up. A version of him owns 80% of all geek retail stores in the whole world. Sometimes the accent (or the language) changes, but that's about it...