Prestige classes

[James the Newbie]

Something simple I just realised I dont understand when looking at prestige classes.

-I am just picking this to illustrate my point, prestige class choices are for a different topic-

If, lets say I wanted to be a fate spinner [who need Knowledge(arcana) 10]. Lets say I was a level 6 wizard with 9 ranks in knowledge (arcana) but somehow meet all other requirements. If advancing to level 7, means I can put that extra skill point into knowledge (arcana) giving me knowledge (arcana) 10, can I take a rank in fate spinner at level 7, or do I need to wait untill level 8?

If the example didnt illustrate it then I will try and explain below

If I gain the requirements for the prestige class upon leveling up, can I take the level there and then, or must I level up again now I meet the requirements of the prestige class

(I hope that makes sense)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

You'd have to wait. You need to meet all the prerequisites before taking a level in a prestige class.

 

[Ranger19k]

Wizbang is spot on.

PH p 58-59 lays out the progression of how to level up: Step 1 - choose class, Step 2 - BAB, Step 3 - Base Save Bonus, Step 4 - Ability Score, Step 5 - HP, Step 6 - Skill Points, Step 7 - Feats, Step 8 - Spells, Step 9- Class features.

Going in this sequence, you need to select your class or Prestige Class as step 1, while you don't add to your skill points until step 6. Thus, you need to have the prerequisite skill points to qualify for your desired Prestige Class before you level up. On the other hand, you can start leveling up and use the skill points that you add in step 6 to qualify for a feat in step 7, but not the class requirements.

 

[Samloyal23]

Another question about skill prerequisites: Let's say you need rank in a skill. Can you qualify with a lower rank plus a feat that boosts your skill, such as skills focus?

 

[Ranger19k]

If there was a feat that actually increased your ranks in a given skill, then yes it would help you qualify. However, all the skill boosting feats that I know of add a bonus to your skill check rather than adding actual ranks to your skill.

Example, Skill Focus is worded like this: Benefit: You get a +3 bonus on all checks involving that skill.

This does not add to your actual skill ranks, so no, it does not help you qualify for a PrC that has a certain skill rank requirement.

 

[Samloyal23]

If there was a feat that actually increased your ranks in a given skill, then yes it would help you qualify. However, all the skill boosting feats that I know of add a bonus to your skill check rather than adding actual ranks to your skill.

Example, Skill Focus is worded like this: Benefit: You get a +3 bonus on all checks involving that skill.

This does not add to your actual skill ranks, so no, it does not help you qualify for a PrC that has a certain skill rank requirement.

It is what it is, but, effectively, what is the difference?

 

[Empirate]

The difference is that skill ranks are almost the only thing that is directly tied to your character level. For example, 8 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) cannot EVER be achieved before level 5. For this reason, skill ranks minimums are often used in PrC prerequisites, because this is a way to make sure you can't enter the PrC 'too' early.

That said, aren't there a few obscure ways out there to increase max skill ranks beyond character level + 3? Anywhere?

 

[Samloyal23]

The difference is that skill ranks are almost the only thing that is directly tied to your character level. For example, 8 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) cannot EVER be achieved before level 5. For this reason, skill ranks minimums are often used in PrC prerequisites, because this is a way to make sure you can't enter the PrC 'too' early.

That said, aren't there a few obscure ways out there to increase max skill ranks beyond character level + 3? Anywhere?

This is where game balance and logic part ways. Improving a skill and increasing rank should logically be the same most of the time...

 

[Empirate]

Sure, but all game mechanics are just abstractions anyway. So PrC prerequisites are still on the same level as the skill rank // total skill modifier divide. In-game and game-mechanical logics are far apart indeed. I don't see it as a problem though; it's more a feature of D&D in general than a bug.

 

[steeldragons]

Sure, but all game mechanics are just abstractions anyway. So PrC prerequisites are still on the same level as the skill rank // total skill modifier divide. In-game and game-mechanical logics are far apart indeed. I don't see it as a problem though; it's more a feature of D&D in general than a bug.

This.

If you can fluff it (not that you even have to) that as you are studying/picking up your next rank of knowledge/arcane you are, at the same time, come across/delving into the new mysteries of the "Order of the Fate Spinners" (forgive the ignorance, I have no idea how/what a Fate spinner is, precisely, or their presented fluff. Kudos for bringing up a prestige class I've never seen referenced before! ), then I see no reason you (or rather your DM) couldn't house-rule it to allow yourself the new prestige class at level up...that is, at the same time/level...regardless of what the mechanics say.

If you have/prefer a "by the book" game, then it sounds like you have to wait til next level (deferring to Whizbang's expertise).

--SD