Previews for Dungeon 148 and Dragon 357 (July 2007)

[Grog]

Didn't 1st edition Orcus have the power to kill a PC with no save on a hit with his wand?

 

[Mouseferatu]

For a demon lord to possess the title "Prince of Demons" I would have to say CR 35+, personally.

It's Demogorgon who claims the title "Prince of Demons," isn't it? Orcus is prince of the undead...

 

[theredrobedwizard]

Demogorgon: "I'm the Prince of all Demons. You can't beat me, Kakarot Orcus!"
Orcus: "Haha! You're funny, Demogorgon, let's have a picnic!"
Demogorgon: "No! But I'm the Prince of all Demons?! How could the lure of cold sandwiches and melon waylay my plans for multiversal dominance?"

Seriously, I have no idea why, but any time anything is refered to as the Prince of something, all I can think of is that character spouting cheesy Vegeta dialog. Tis a sad, sad life.

Also, this preview makes my Acolyte of the Skin blend right in.

-TRRW

 

[Nightfall]

Thayan,

They call them Princes cause for some reason, people on other Material planes (usually powers) get ornery about someone calling themselves "God of the Undead." or "God of Demons." Not to mention "Mother of Demons." or "God of the Lower Airs."

That kind of stuff.

Grog,

I don't recall if there was a save or not, but I want the DC on the Wand to at least DC 45+

Razz,

You got your demon princes crossed there. *smite*

Ari,

Yeah Demogorgon holds the current title. But according to recent sources, Mishka had that title before him.

 

[James Jacobs]

Well... no matter WHAT CR Demogorgon ends up being, I guarentee it'll be too low for someone. Same for the others.

The way I've been setting up these articles so far, the demon lords generally run from CR 24 to 32. I suspect Demogorgon'll end up being the lone CR 32 in the series, with Orcus, Graz'zt, and Obox-ob being the only CR 31s in the series (if I ever get to them, which I hope I do).

Are those CR scores too low? For some games, absolutely. But if I've learned anything about Demon Lord CRs from my work on FC1, it's that you can't please everyone. Best to aim for myself on this one, and I like Demogorgon at CR 32, since that fits best for what I've got planned for Savage Tide if the PCs mess up bad.

 

[James Jacobs]

Demon lord titles are kind of meaningless. They don't grant powers. They're mostly just bragging rights. If you're tough enough, you can call yourself Prince of Demons and the others just have to take it, at least, until they can engineer your downfall. So far, no one's been able to do that to Demogorgon, so he's kept the title since he snatched it from Mishka.

Of course, Obox-ob had the title for untold eons before Mishka had it.

 

[Mouseferatu]

James, I've got a question, since you're here. I'll try to ask it without spoiling any details, but those who have read the Savage Tide summary should know what I'm talking about.

How "canonical" is the Savage Tide's conclusion intended to be in the grand scheme of D&D? That is, should we expect the inevitable shake-up to be represented in future WotC books, or is it meant more as a "What if" scenario specifically for people who play through the adventure path?

 

[Nightfall]

James,

See I was thinking you'd make Demorgorgon CR 40 myself...based on the "screw ups." by PCs.

But I guess I'll live with a CR 32 as compared to the BoVD cruddy one I got. Same for Orcus.

*doesn't blame you for FC I in ANY way* It was good. It was better than good! Just wish they hadn't reused the same art for Orcus.

And yeah Obox-ob had it before Miskha, but I was only talking "recent" history, not "history, history".

 

[Nightfall]

James, I've got a question, since you're here. I'll try to ask it without spoiling any details, but those who have read the Savage Tide summary should know what I'm talking about.

How "canonical" is the Savage Tide's conclusion intended to be in the grand scheme of D&D? That is, should we expect the inevitable shake-up to be represented in future WotC books, or is it meant more as a "What if" scenario specifically for people who play through the adventure path?

*NF is assuming it's a What IF scenario since no one in WotC has said "Kyuss is dead." Cause he should be.

 

[James Jacobs]

James, I've got a question, since you're here. I'll try to ask it without spoiling any details, but those who have read the Savage Tide summary should know what I'm talking about.

How "canonical" is the Savage Tide's conclusion intended to be in the grand scheme of D&D? That is, should we expect the inevitable shake-up to be represented in future WotC books, or is it meant more as a "What if" scenario specifically for people who play through the adventure path?

Savage Tide's canon is self-contained in the continuity of the Dungeon Adventure Paths, but beyond that, it's as "canon" as you want it to be for Greyhawk or Eberron or Forgotten Realms or Mystara or whatever. It's not meant to advance some "world of D&D" timeline unless you, the DM, want it that way.

Which is my way of saying Demogorgon's been Prince of Demons for all of D&D, and it's gonna take something bigger than a 12-part adventure published in a magazine to have a permanent affect on that reign.

Maybe.