Aldarc
Legend
How does that affect the balance of spellcasters? Are they given anything else in compensation?
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D&D 5E Primeval Thule 5e
- Thread starter vegaserik01
- Start date
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
Explorer
Dungeon Crawl Classics might be a good ruleset for Primeval Thule.
Astonishing Swordsment & Sorcerer's of Hyperborea also looks promising for a Thule campaign. Haven't played it, yet, but looks like it would definitely due the Sword & Sorcery feel up right. Would have to import some of the other races from 1E/2E or B/X, if desired for Thule, though.
3X/PF E6 or E7 would likely be a good fit for Thule, also.
And, Iron Heroes would likely be a good crunchy ruleset for Thule, also.
Astonishing Swordsment & Sorcerer's of Hyperborea also looks promising for a Thule campaign. Haven't played it, yet, but looks like it would definitely due the Sword & Sorcery feel up right. Would have to import some of the other races from 1E/2E or B/X, if desired for Thule, though.
3X/PF E6 or E7 would likely be a good fit for Thule, also.
And, Iron Heroes would likely be a good crunchy ruleset for Thule, also.
Tony Vargas
Legend
Sounds like the classes that get cantrips are simply cut from the campaign as PC choices, entirely:
Not the way I'd go to get a 'low magic feel,' myself. I'd probably cut either cut most caster classes (the Warlock fits PT very well, for instance, but everything else can go) or keep the classes but drop slot-based casting, entirely (so you can use cantrips and you can use rituals), with nothing to 'balance the loss' (other than the fact you're in a world where magic is very rare, and being able to display any sort of magic makes you a big deal) - indeed, probably with additional rules to make using magic dangerous, as well.
Or slots could start 'empty' and need to be charged up in various unpleasant ways (like, oh, human sacrifice)...
Hussar
Legend
No balance issues. They don't exist.
It's worked really well so far. Granted we do have a bit of magic - two rangers in the party - but, by and large, it's been much more Sword than sorcery. Been really liking it.
Been thinking a lot about running Thule and what casting to allow. I think Conanesque fantasy is best/truest without 'Divine' type casters, so I think I'd disallow Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin. I would definitely want Warlock, and I think I'd allow Wizard & thus Eldritch Knight since the setting seems one where Wizards exit, though Warlock-only would also work. Eldritch Knight seems a good class for Elves. Bard doesn't feel right for Thule so would disallow that. I would want mostly Fighters, Rogues, Barbarians and the occasional Monk, and maybe one Warlock or Wizard.
One thought I had was to not allow Wizard as a starting class, but treat as a sort of prestige class for
someone who first took the Ritual Caster feat, so all Wizards have at least 1 level in another class. Or if no Variant humans then at least 4 levels...
I did something like this in my Wilderlands game, said a PC could become an Eldritch Knight at 3rd only if they took Ritual Casting at 1st. Worked excellently.
One thought I had was to not allow Wizard as a starting class, but treat as a sort of prestige class for
someone who first took the Ritual Caster feat, so all Wizards have at least 1 level in another class. Or if no Variant humans then at least 4 levels...
I did something like this in my Wilderlands game, said a PC could become an Eldritch Knight at 3rd only if they took Ritual Casting at 1st. Worked excellently.
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Here's a draft for my system, I like it a lot so far.
5e Primeval Thule Class System
While some study for years to master the arts of magic, the path of the Warlock is temptingly quick and easy...
Starting Classes
Barbarian
Fighter
Monk
Rogue
Warlock - Infernal or Old One
Eldritch Knight & Arcane Trickster
In order to become an Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster or other caster subclass the PC must already have the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat. The quickest way to do this is to be a Variant Human with the Feat at 1st level.
Exception: High Elves have magic in the blood. They may become an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster even without the Ritual Caster feat.
Wizard
To become a true Wizard the PC must first have 3 levels in a caster subclass such as Eldritch Knight. This means the effective maximum 'true wizard' level is 15.
Example: Bob wants to become a Wizard.
At 1st level he is a Human Fighter with the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat. He could also have been a High Elf.
At 3rd level he becomes an Eldritch Knight.
At 6th level he can multiclass and become a Fighter (EK)-5/Wizard-1.
5e Primeval Thule Class System
While some study for years to master the arts of magic, the path of the Warlock is temptingly quick and easy...
Starting Classes
Barbarian
Fighter
Monk
Rogue
Warlock - Infernal or Old One
Eldritch Knight & Arcane Trickster
In order to become an Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster or other caster subclass the PC must already have the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat. The quickest way to do this is to be a Variant Human with the Feat at 1st level.
Exception: High Elves have magic in the blood. They may become an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster even without the Ritual Caster feat.
Wizard
To become a true Wizard the PC must first have 3 levels in a caster subclass such as Eldritch Knight. This means the effective maximum 'true wizard' level is 15.
Example: Bob wants to become a Wizard.
At 1st level he is a Human Fighter with the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat. He could also have been a High Elf.
At 3rd level he becomes an Eldritch Knight.
At 6th level he can multiclass and become a Fighter (EK)-5/Wizard-1.
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Aldarc
Legend
I would keep the druid but disallow the wizard. IMO, the druid serves exceedingly well as the more mytho-traditional view of the "natural wizard" and magical sage (e.g. Merlin, Gandalf, etc.). It allows one to effectively combine the cleric and wizard role. So there is some healing, but it's not to cleric levels. And there is some wizard control, blasting, and utility, but it's not to wizard levels. And I would argue that the druid does not represent "divine" magic but the primal, if not primordial, mysterious power of nature, which does fit in Sword & Sorcery. Then the warlock could just be the primary arcanist, with possibly the sorcerers.Been thinking a lot about running Thule and what casting to allow. I think Conanesque fantasy is best/truest without 'Divine' type casters, so I think I'd disallow Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin. I would definitely want Warlock, and I think I'd allow Wizard & thus Eldritch Knight since the setting seems one where Wizards exit, though Warlock-only would also work. Eldritch Knight seems a good class for Elves. Bard doesn't feel right for Thule so would disallow that. I would want mostly Fighters, Rogues, Barbarians and the occasional Monk, and maybe one Warlock or Wizard.
One thought I had was to not allow Wizard as a starting class, but treat as a sort of prestige class for
someone who first took the Ritual Caster feat, so all Wizards have at least 1 level in another class. Or if no Variant humans then at least 4 levels...
I did something like this in my Wilderlands game, said a PC could become an Eldritch Knight at 3rd only if they took Ritual Casting at 1st. Worked excellently.
Land Druid & Bard both fit traditional-myth 'wizards' like Merlin much better than the D&D Wizard. But Thule's theme is modernist REH Conan/Kull 20th-century swords & sorcery, where magic is an Un-Natural force seeping in from the Outer Void, not traditional myth or high fantasy. It's more HPL than Tolkien.
Caliburn101
Explorer
My Houserules for PT;
Swords & Sorcery House Rules
Having reviewed the rules on healing and magic, including the variant rules in the DMG and Unearthed Arcana, I couldn’t always find the perfect fit for the ‘bloody grittiness’ and ‘dark sorcery’ tropes of S&S.
So please find here my House Rules for these – which include original input alongside adaptations of the variant rules that predate them, with some much needed granularity and some rationalisation of the genre all rolled in.
Natural Healing
Strictly for the purposes of natural healing (the recovery of HP using HD rolls etc.), Long Rests are functionally the same as standard Short Rests, and it takes a full week of complete R&R to gain the healing benefits of a standard Long Rest. Should a week of complete R&R be interrupted, 10% of the character’s maximum HPs will have been regained per full day of R&R that occurred before the interruption.
HD Healing during a Long Rest requires the use of a Healer’s Kit. If someone with the Healer Feat is using the Healer’s Kit, they can apply the 1d6+4+HD healing for one use of its supplies, but can only be applied 1/day.
Healer’s Kits and the Healer Feat
Each round that someone proficient works on a wounded individual with a Healer’s Kit, they gain advantage on their death saves until the extended heal action is finished (which expends a single use of the kit). Note that if they manage to self-stabilise with this help before the time usually required to auto-stabilise them, the use of the kit is still expended but the individual stabilises sooner.
Healer's Kits may be used during Short Rests (taking the usual 10 rounds) once per person and for two uses of the Kit's supplies if the person using them is trained with the Healer Feat. This is the only case where the 1d6+4+HD healing can be gained from this Feat during a Short Rest period, but can only be applied 1/day. Note that this Kit Feat healing is in addition to that possible from application during a Long Rest (see previous section).
Note that fast healing during fights is confined to magic or abilities only, and with its considerable limitations, however, the use of a Healer’s Kit with the Feat allows for far more healing than would otherwise be achieved during rests and it is strongly recommended that the party has at least one person so trained.
Second Wind
With the new rules for gritty and slow healing, Second Wind becomes far too powerful a way to rapidly heal. The ability is therefore changed to allow the Fighter to gain Temporary HPs, not regain real ones.
Spell Healing
In Primeval Thule, healing spells work differently, drawing upon the life-force of those involved to fuel their effects.
For each level of healing spell received, the target must spend one of their own natural healing HD. If there are insufficient available, the shortfall must be made up by the caster. This may be done by sacrificing their own HD and/or levels of Fatigue on a 1 per level basis.
Alternatively, Druids and Clerics can use the life force of sacrifice to fuel healing spells by killing the living sacrifice the round before the spell is cast (and no longer), and gaining ‘free’ HD to spend equal to the CR of the creature sacrificed for this purpose. See the section on Animism & Theurgy.
Note that the healing received from Druid Shapeshifting costs natural healing HD equal to the CR of the forms involved on each occasion, and if this cost cannot be met, half the damage from the previous form carries through to subsequent forms.
Other abilities which allow healing (Divine Channeling etc.), or items such as potions of healing are unchanged except where specifically mentioned.
Corruption
Certain abhorrent deeds, uses of inhuman magic, or exposure to powerfully aberrant evils can taint the souls of those involved.
Players will learn in-game what acts, being or places corrupt the soul, but once gained, Corruption uses the following mechanics.
Each time a source of Corruption is encountered, the character(s) involved must make a Wisdom saving throw of a DC appropriate to the power of the source or heinousness of the deed. A failed save gains the character 1d4+1 Corruption Points (CP), a successful save, just 1 CP.
At ‘appropriate’ times (as the players will discover…), the CP’s accrued will be spent by the DM to force change in the corrupted character. Effects can include, but are not limited to;
• Removal of Inspiration Points
• Nightmares causing Fatigue
• New Flaws
• Disadvantage on saves v’s the powers of Demons or Aberrations
• Change of Alignment
• Physical signs and deformities
• Reduction in Wisdom or Charisma
Sorcery
All wielders of Arcane Magic are referred to as Sorcerer’s in Primeval Thule. Functionally, they are all of the Wizard Class, with the following extra advantages and disadvantages.
• The Power of Sacrifice - you may sacrifice a helpless and unwounded living being for Sorcery Points (See Font of Magic, PHB pages 101-102). Sacrifice takes a full round per victim and requires a method of doing so which does not use magic. Each full CR of victim sacrificed (or per 1d4+level damage for self-sacrifice) creates 1 SP for future use. The maximum SP's usable for a single casting is equal to Proff. Bonus/2 (round up). The maximum SPs that can be stored by a Sorcerer are equal to Proff. Bonus. Sacrificing intelligent beings can Corrupt the Sorcerer.
• Sorcerous Pacts - you may Pact with a powerful entity gaining some of the benefits of the Otherworldy Patron ability (PHB page 107). In rare cases, after significant service and devotion to a Temple, a Deity may be pacted to, but more usually the entities in question are dark and self-serving. A Pact uses up 1 attunement slot. Non-deific patrons must be found in-game and negotiated with, and will ask far more of the Pactee than the Warlock Class variant of the ability. Spells gained from a Pact are taught by the Patron (or Temple) and are entered into the Sorcerer's spellbook as any other spell.
• Eldritch Invocations - modified versions of these (PHB page 107) may be researched or discovered in-game, but are rare and valuable.
• Concentration Checks - the Sorcerer's Charisma bonus is added to these checks in addition to the normal bonuses.
• Intimidating Magic - most people are afraid of magic, and when the GM agrees, the Sorcerer may gain advantage on Intimidation checks after displaying magical power.
Animism & Theurgy
Animism is the Primeval Thule name for the magic practiced by Druids, and Theurgy is the magic of Clerics.
• The Power of Sacrifice – Druids and Clerics may sacrifice a helpless and unwounded living being for Bonus Spell Slots (see PHB Sorcerer Class). Each full CR of sacrificed victim provides 1 level of bonus spell slot which is then available for use until the next Long Rest taken. The sacrificing of sentient beings accrues Corruption Points to Druids who do so, or to the non-evil Clerics of the Nine.
• By killing a living sacrifice the round before a healing spell is cast (and no longer), the Druid or Cleric can gain ‘free’ HD to spend equal to the CR of the creature sacrificed for this purpose.
• Only Druids of the Land are permitted as a subclass for Druids.
• Displays of powerful magic can give Druids and Cleric’s advantage on Intimidation checks, in if the targets are of their own ‘faith’ a bonus to Persuasion checks instead.
Restricted Magic
Flight, Teleportation and a few other spells which are not S&S in flavour are restricted or entirely absent from Primeval Thule. Some will be ancient forgotten secrets, some never existed, and some will be altered to fit the S&S genre better.
Check with the GM on spell choices and naming conventions.
Places of Power
Some ancient and powerfully magical places in Primeval Thule can provide their owners with power.
If found, and their secrets uncovered, a Place of Power may be attuned by an individual using an attunement slot.
Each provides unique bonuses, and in some cases are class, race or culture specific.
The Discipline of Steel
Some Feats or Class Abilities which give access to martial abilities can be trained by characters after considerable investment of time and resources in addition to those gained by levelling during Downtimes.
Masters of battle are feared, successful displays of martial prowess can afford the performing warrior advantage on Intimidation or Persuasion checks under the right circumstances.
Swords & Sorcery House Rules
Having reviewed the rules on healing and magic, including the variant rules in the DMG and Unearthed Arcana, I couldn’t always find the perfect fit for the ‘bloody grittiness’ and ‘dark sorcery’ tropes of S&S.
So please find here my House Rules for these – which include original input alongside adaptations of the variant rules that predate them, with some much needed granularity and some rationalisation of the genre all rolled in.
Natural Healing
Strictly for the purposes of natural healing (the recovery of HP using HD rolls etc.), Long Rests are functionally the same as standard Short Rests, and it takes a full week of complete R&R to gain the healing benefits of a standard Long Rest. Should a week of complete R&R be interrupted, 10% of the character’s maximum HPs will have been regained per full day of R&R that occurred before the interruption.
HD Healing during a Long Rest requires the use of a Healer’s Kit. If someone with the Healer Feat is using the Healer’s Kit, they can apply the 1d6+4+HD healing for one use of its supplies, but can only be applied 1/day.
Healer’s Kits and the Healer Feat
Each round that someone proficient works on a wounded individual with a Healer’s Kit, they gain advantage on their death saves until the extended heal action is finished (which expends a single use of the kit). Note that if they manage to self-stabilise with this help before the time usually required to auto-stabilise them, the use of the kit is still expended but the individual stabilises sooner.
Healer's Kits may be used during Short Rests (taking the usual 10 rounds) once per person and for two uses of the Kit's supplies if the person using them is trained with the Healer Feat. This is the only case where the 1d6+4+HD healing can be gained from this Feat during a Short Rest period, but can only be applied 1/day. Note that this Kit Feat healing is in addition to that possible from application during a Long Rest (see previous section).
Note that fast healing during fights is confined to magic or abilities only, and with its considerable limitations, however, the use of a Healer’s Kit with the Feat allows for far more healing than would otherwise be achieved during rests and it is strongly recommended that the party has at least one person so trained.
Second Wind
With the new rules for gritty and slow healing, Second Wind becomes far too powerful a way to rapidly heal. The ability is therefore changed to allow the Fighter to gain Temporary HPs, not regain real ones.
Spell Healing
In Primeval Thule, healing spells work differently, drawing upon the life-force of those involved to fuel their effects.
For each level of healing spell received, the target must spend one of their own natural healing HD. If there are insufficient available, the shortfall must be made up by the caster. This may be done by sacrificing their own HD and/or levels of Fatigue on a 1 per level basis.
Alternatively, Druids and Clerics can use the life force of sacrifice to fuel healing spells by killing the living sacrifice the round before the spell is cast (and no longer), and gaining ‘free’ HD to spend equal to the CR of the creature sacrificed for this purpose. See the section on Animism & Theurgy.
Note that the healing received from Druid Shapeshifting costs natural healing HD equal to the CR of the forms involved on each occasion, and if this cost cannot be met, half the damage from the previous form carries through to subsequent forms.
Other abilities which allow healing (Divine Channeling etc.), or items such as potions of healing are unchanged except where specifically mentioned.
Corruption
Certain abhorrent deeds, uses of inhuman magic, or exposure to powerfully aberrant evils can taint the souls of those involved.
Players will learn in-game what acts, being or places corrupt the soul, but once gained, Corruption uses the following mechanics.
Each time a source of Corruption is encountered, the character(s) involved must make a Wisdom saving throw of a DC appropriate to the power of the source or heinousness of the deed. A failed save gains the character 1d4+1 Corruption Points (CP), a successful save, just 1 CP.
At ‘appropriate’ times (as the players will discover…), the CP’s accrued will be spent by the DM to force change in the corrupted character. Effects can include, but are not limited to;
• Removal of Inspiration Points
• Nightmares causing Fatigue
• New Flaws
• Disadvantage on saves v’s the powers of Demons or Aberrations
• Change of Alignment
• Physical signs and deformities
• Reduction in Wisdom or Charisma
Sorcery
All wielders of Arcane Magic are referred to as Sorcerer’s in Primeval Thule. Functionally, they are all of the Wizard Class, with the following extra advantages and disadvantages.
• The Power of Sacrifice - you may sacrifice a helpless and unwounded living being for Sorcery Points (See Font of Magic, PHB pages 101-102). Sacrifice takes a full round per victim and requires a method of doing so which does not use magic. Each full CR of victim sacrificed (or per 1d4+level damage for self-sacrifice) creates 1 SP for future use. The maximum SP's usable for a single casting is equal to Proff. Bonus/2 (round up). The maximum SPs that can be stored by a Sorcerer are equal to Proff. Bonus. Sacrificing intelligent beings can Corrupt the Sorcerer.
• Sorcerous Pacts - you may Pact with a powerful entity gaining some of the benefits of the Otherworldy Patron ability (PHB page 107). In rare cases, after significant service and devotion to a Temple, a Deity may be pacted to, but more usually the entities in question are dark and self-serving. A Pact uses up 1 attunement slot. Non-deific patrons must be found in-game and negotiated with, and will ask far more of the Pactee than the Warlock Class variant of the ability. Spells gained from a Pact are taught by the Patron (or Temple) and are entered into the Sorcerer's spellbook as any other spell.
• Eldritch Invocations - modified versions of these (PHB page 107) may be researched or discovered in-game, but are rare and valuable.
• Concentration Checks - the Sorcerer's Charisma bonus is added to these checks in addition to the normal bonuses.
• Intimidating Magic - most people are afraid of magic, and when the GM agrees, the Sorcerer may gain advantage on Intimidation checks after displaying magical power.
Animism & Theurgy
Animism is the Primeval Thule name for the magic practiced by Druids, and Theurgy is the magic of Clerics.
• The Power of Sacrifice – Druids and Clerics may sacrifice a helpless and unwounded living being for Bonus Spell Slots (see PHB Sorcerer Class). Each full CR of sacrificed victim provides 1 level of bonus spell slot which is then available for use until the next Long Rest taken. The sacrificing of sentient beings accrues Corruption Points to Druids who do so, or to the non-evil Clerics of the Nine.
• By killing a living sacrifice the round before a healing spell is cast (and no longer), the Druid or Cleric can gain ‘free’ HD to spend equal to the CR of the creature sacrificed for this purpose.
• Only Druids of the Land are permitted as a subclass for Druids.
• Displays of powerful magic can give Druids and Cleric’s advantage on Intimidation checks, in if the targets are of their own ‘faith’ a bonus to Persuasion checks instead.
Restricted Magic
Flight, Teleportation and a few other spells which are not S&S in flavour are restricted or entirely absent from Primeval Thule. Some will be ancient forgotten secrets, some never existed, and some will be altered to fit the S&S genre better.
Check with the GM on spell choices and naming conventions.
Places of Power
Some ancient and powerfully magical places in Primeval Thule can provide their owners with power.
If found, and their secrets uncovered, a Place of Power may be attuned by an individual using an attunement slot.
Each provides unique bonuses, and in some cases are class, race or culture specific.
The Discipline of Steel
Some Feats or Class Abilities which give access to martial abilities can be trained by characters after considerable investment of time and resources in addition to those gained by levelling during Downtimes.
Masters of battle are feared, successful displays of martial prowess can afford the performing warrior advantage on Intimidation or Persuasion checks under the right circumstances.
Aldarc
Legend
Perhaps, but Primeval Thule talks about how the power of druidic/shamanistic magic comes from the spirits of nature rather than deities. There is a primality to their magic that differs from the magic of warlocks, wizards, and such.
