Professional GM: Possible Return

[catsclaw227]

SO.... A lot of people have been asking you a few extremely valid questions that you don't seem willing to answer. But I guess that's your prerogative. I have a couple for you.

1. Did you do any market research to even find out if gamers would be willing to pay you $105 for a gaming session?

2. Are you making custom battle-maps in Dundjinni or doing anything to make your games better than a typical F2F home game?

3. Are you still planning on the puppet show, mask, or singing thing? [I'll be totally honest with you, if you started doing this during a game I was playing in, I'd laugh for a sec, then get ticked off and then ask for my money back.... ALL of it.]

4. What happens if the players in the group end up not getting along with each other?

5. What is it about YOUR game and style itself that will convice people to pay you to play? You haven't really answered this in any concrete way.

6. When do you plan on starting and how many games do you (honestly) think you will get in your first month?

7. Have you thought about getting at least ONE paying group first before doing all this website building, card-making, multiple game style pricing stuff? You should walk before you run. You will be very disappointed if you spend 200 hours prepping for this business and you find out you only get one paying group every 2 weeks.

8. How do you plan on generating repeat business? Will you run mini-campaigns? Stay with LFR games?

9. What about people that can easily sign up for a LFR game for free. There must be TONS of games going on in the NYC area. Heck there's a few weekly LFR games here in little ol' Cary/Apex. And they are free.

Just some questions to mull over, I'm curious to know your thoughts.

 

[Captain_Commando]

SO.... A lot of people have been asking you a few extremely valid questions that you don't seem willing to answer. But I guess that's your prerogative. I have a couple for you.

1. Did you do any market research to even find out if gamers would be willing to pay you $105 for a gaming session?

2. Are you making custom battle-maps in Dundjinni or doing anything to make your games better than a typical F2F home game?

3. Are you still planning on the puppet show, mask, or singing thing? [I'll be totally honest with you, if you started doing this during a game I was playing in, I'd laugh for a sec, then get ticked off and then ask for my money back.... ALL of it.]

4. What happens if the players in the group end up not getting along with each other?

5. What is it about YOUR game and style itself that will convice people to pay you to play? You haven't really answered this in any concrete way.

6. When do you plan on starting and how many games do you (honestly) think you will get in your first month?

7. Have you thought about getting at least ONE paying group first before doing all this website building, card-making, multiple game style pricing stuff? You should walk before you run. You will be very disappointed if you spend 200 hours prepping for this business and you find out you only get one paying group every 2 weeks.

8. How do you plan on generating repeat business? Will you run mini-campaigns? Stay with LFR games?

9. What about people that can easily sign up for a LFR game for free. There must be TONS of games going on in the NYC area. Heck there's a few weekly LFR games here in little ol' Cary/Apex. And they are free.

Just some questions to mull over, I'm curious to know your thoughts.

Which extremely valid questions are you referring to?

1. People who are having problems finding the right group and DMs who want to play but want to play with their current group where no one else wants to DM have told me they might pay for a session depending on the price. I've researched current costs of entertainment in the city to see how high I might be able to go with this. I've looked into the profession of storytelling to find out that there is a market for professional storytellers that is getting a bit of a revival lately. Once the site is up and I've gone to my first networking party I will begin to see how many people might hire me for this but due to my services being inexpensive compared to other team-building exercise services, I may very well be able to sell it as that. The first week or two of actually having the business up is the real litmus test for this sort of thing.

2. I'll be combining printed tiles, store-bought tiles, cinematic screen backsplash, original artwork and 3-d constructs to create elaborate battlefields for encounters.

3. The "puppet show" and "mask" perhaps for the children's storytelling service, not the game session service. As for the singing, that will be up to the client during the survey.

4. The client is responsible for who is playing in the group. If there are conflicts, my 5 years as an elementary grade Sunday School teacher will surely come in handy.

5. First of all, my game and style are NOT the only reasons to hire me over others nor are they the main reasons. It is the COMBINATION of my storytelling skills, creative writing, elaborate setup, referenceable experience, and most of all schedule/location availability that set me apart from other GMs (most of them at least). Those that might possibly have a similar if not greater level of session resources are likely to be full up already. The time and effort spent to try finding someone that will bring as much to the table as me will be more expensive and much more likely to yield less satisfactory results in most cases. It might be easy to find a free GM but not one with the same hours and production/skill level. My business provides a luxury, not a necessity, and NYC is famous for people who spend money on luxury entertainment.

6. It's decided that I'm officially starting next week. I expect 2 sessions, 5 at most for my first month. Enough to cover my food and transportation for job hunting at the very least. I will probably see more LFR requests and children's storytelling requests than for the other services but that's fine. Offering more than one type of service is key to making regular income with this business.

7. A business has to be set up before it can be run. One does not build a temple without a foundation. One paying group every 2 weeks is a success from my perspective. It's better than nothing. 200 hours is quite an exaggeration. I've had time since I don't qualify for every single job that's available locally, just some of them, and interviews are not immediately given in most cases.

8. I'll be adding new original adventures to the site weekly. There are already plenty of LFR modules that can be run and more are on the way. I'll certainly make campaign service an option but it's more likely that clients will order the one-shots and LFR modules. Campaigns will be an option in customized service.

9. The official LFR meetup is on Wednesdays from 7 PM-11 PM at a set location with 2 or 3 DMs. I will be available every other day of the week + hours before 7 PM and be able to run as many as 3 in a day from 11 AM to 11 PM in the location of the client's choice.

I only really need 1 or 2 regular clients with money to spend to make this a success from my perspective. Otherwise a bunch of people trying the service once or twice over the course of several months. A combination of both would potentially be enough for a living but I'm not expecting that much.

NYC is full of people with odd hours (city that never sleeps for good reason). If there are gamers with odd hours, chances are they might jump on the opportunity I'm presenting. Most of my potential clientele however will likely belong to irregular gamers and people who want to try out the game for possibly the first time but don't have schedules that match with the local meetup network.

The next couple of weeks will show whether there is a strong enough market for my combination of services. Anyway, I can at least keep the service up for free (free web hosting). I'm not having to prepare a game if I'm not being hired anyway. All the stuff on the site immediately available will be pre-written and waiting to be requested while I'm job hunting.

 

[catsclaw227]

1. People who are having problems finding the right group and DMs who want to play but want to play with their current group where no one else wants to DM have told me they might pay for a session depending on the price. I've researched current costs of entertainment in the city to see how high I might be able to go with this. I've looked into the profession of storytelling to find out that there is a market for professional storytellers that is getting a bit of a revival lately. Once the site is up and I've gone to my first networking party I will begin to see how many people might hire me for this but due to my services being inexpensive compared to other team-building exercise services, I may very well be able to sell it as that. The first week or two of actually having the business up is the real litmus test for this sort of thing.

Are these networking parties like D&D Meetup parties, or are they storytelling parties? I am a bit confused, has you job shifted predominantly towards storytelling or DMing some 4e D&D games? I am guessing by your response you have already gotten a few yeses about paying you to DM? Also, getting a good website up isn't easy, it can suck many hours out of your day.

I agree, the first 2-3 weeks will tell a lot, but you really won't know for 2-3 months if it's going to be worth it or not.

2. I'll be combining printed tiles, store-bought tiles, cinematic screen backsplash, original artwork and 3-d constructs to create elaborate battlefields for encounters.

Nice. I assume you have this budgeted, I recall a "props" budget or something. The printed tiles, original artwork and 3-d elaborate battlefields take some time to get done, so figure this in as well.

3. The "puppet show" and "mask" perhaps for the children's storytelling service, not the game session service. As for the singing, that will be up to the client during the survey.

I see, I recall you were talking about using the puppet show and the mask during regular game sessions.

4. The client is responsible for who is playing in the group. If there are conflicts, my 5 years as an elementary grade Sunday School teacher will surely come in handy.

Good point. But, realistically, if you happen to cobble together a game from two different groups of friends (2 from one, 3 from another), there is a real chance they might not "game the same", so to speak. Not really anything you can do about it, but it's something to look out for.

5. First of all, my game and style are NOT the only reasons to hire me over others nor are they the main reasons. It is the COMBINATION of my storytelling skills, creative writing, elaborate setup, referenceable experience, and most of all schedule/location availability that set me apart from other GMs (most of them at least). Those that might possibly have a similar if not greater level of session resources are likely to be full up already. The time and effort spent to try finding someone that will bring as much to the table as me will be more expensive and much more likely to yield less satisfactory results in most cases. It might be easy to find a free GM but not one with the same hours and production/skill level. My business provides a luxury, not a necessity, and NYC is famous for people who spend money on luxury entertainment.

Well, I wish you luck in this regard. Remember, more people are spending less money on these kinds of things in this economy. Could you afford to pay someone $100 for a few game sessions?

6. It's decided that I'm officially starting next week. I expect 2 sessions, 5 at most for my first month. Enough to cover my food and transportation for job hunting at the very least. I will probably see more LFR requests and children's storytelling requests than for the other services but that's fine. Offering more than one type of service is key to making regular income with this business.

I assume that with this expectation, you already have two sessions set up and scheduled for next week? I didn't know you were already starting a paying game. I made the mistake of assuming you didn't have any groups set up to DM yet.

7. A business has to be set up before it can be run. One does not build a temple without a foundation. One paying group every 2 weeks is a success from my perspective. It's better than nothing. 200 hours is quite an exaggeration. I've had time since I don't qualify for every single job that's available locally, just some of them, and interviews are not immediately given in most cases.

Yes, but a good businessman also has some clients nailed down while they are still building the foundation.

8. I'll be adding new original adventures to the site weekly. There are already plenty of LFR modules that can be run and more are on the way. I'll certainly make campaign service an option but it's more likely that clients will order the one-shots and LFR modules. Campaigns will be an option in customized service.

Two original adventures a week? With cool maps and handouts and original art and stuff (see question 2)? That's some serious production. Don't burn yourself out!

9. The official LFR meetup is on Wednesdays from 7 PM-11 PM at a set location with 2 or 3 DMs. I will be available every other day of the week + hours before 7 PM and be able to run as many as 3 in a day from 11 AM to 11 PM in the location of the client's choice.

That's good. Stay super flexible, this may be one major saving grace in all of this. I can imagine a bunch of guys that work graveyard shift and can't ever find DMs because they need to play at 6am when they get off work.

I only really need 1 or 2 regular clients with money to spend to make this a success from my perspective. Otherwise a bunch of people trying the service once or twice over the course of several months. A combination of both would potentially be enough for a living but I'm not expecting that much.

How much is the cost of living in NYC? You'd need a lot of clients to earn a living off of it, but I wish you luck. Maybe you can nail down a few good working adult groups, some teen groups (with parental waivers and such), and a university group or two.

NYC is full of people with odd hours (city that never sleeps for good reason). If there are gamers with odd hours, chances are they might jump on the opportunity I'm presenting. Most of my potential clientele however will likely belong to irregular gamers and people who want to try out the game for possibly the first time but don't have schedules that match with the local meetup network.

The next couple of weeks will show whether there is a strong enough market for my combination of services. Anyway, I can at least keep the service up for free (free web hosting). I'm not having to prepare a game if I'm not being hired anyway. All the stuff on the site immediately available will be pre-written and waiting to be requested while I'm job hunting.

Well, good luck with all of this. I am admittedly skeptical, but you seem to be sure in what you are doing.

I would LOVE to get some feedback about how your first two groups do next week. Tell us about them! What classes and races, how are the players, what are their gaming habits, etc.

 

[aboyd]

It is the COMBINATION of my storytelling skills, creative writing, elaborate setup, referenceable experience, and most of all schedule/location availability that set me apart from other GMs (most of them at least).

Referencable experience? I wasn't aware you had that. Seriously? I guess you must, because you wouldn't lie to everyone on this forum. So, great! I'll bite. I'd like to speak with your references about how they enjoyed your games. Let me know who to contact. Thanks.

Also, do you take PayPal?

It's decided that I'm officially starting next week.

Well, that's as close to instant gratification as any rubbernecker could hope for.

 

[Captain_Commando]

1. Are these networking parties like D&D Meetup parties, or are they storytelling parties? I am a bit confused, has you job shifted predominantly towards storytelling or DMing some 4e D&D games?

2. I am guessing by your response you have already gotten a few yeses about paying you to DM?

3. Also, getting a good website up isn't easy, it can suck many hours out of your day.

4. I agree, the first 2-3 weeks will tell a lot, but you really won't know for 2-3 months if it's going to be worth it or not.

5. Nice. I assume you have this budgeted, I recall a "props" budget or something. The printed tiles, original artwork and 3-d elaborate battlefields take some time to get done, so figure this in as well.

6. I see, I recall you were talking about using the puppet show and the mask during regular game sessions.

7. Well, I wish you luck in this regard. Remember, more people are spending less money on these kinds of things in this economy. Could you afford to pay someone $100 for a few game sessions?

8. I assume that with this expectation, you already have two sessions set up and scheduled for next week? I didn't know you were already starting a paying game. I made the mistake of assuming you didn't have any groups set up to DM yet.

9. Yes, but a good businessman also has some clients nailed down while they are still building the foundation.

10. Two original adventures a week? With cool maps and handouts and original art and stuff (see question 2)? That's some serious production. Don't burn yourself out!

11. How much is the cost of living in NYC? You'd need a lot of clients to earn a living off of it, but I wish you luck. Maybe you can nail down a few good working adult groups, some teen groups (with parental waivers and such), and a university group or two.

12. Well, good luck with all of this. I am admittedly skeptical, but you seem to be sure in what you are doing.

13. I would LOVE to get some feedback about how your first two groups do next week. Tell us about them! What classes and races, how are the players, what are their gaming habits, etc.

1. Business networking parties with business owners, entrepeneurs, and corporate team leaders. Professionals with money and companies looking for relatively inexpensive team-building exercises.

2. People said they might pay. That doesn't mean they will pay. I'm not counting on that.

3. I've found a website called Yola that saves time with click and drag website construction. I might try a different web host but Yola seems very convenient.

4. I consider even just one hired gig within the next 2-3 weeks a success. That's enough to cover a lot of subway and bus rides and at least several meals.

5. Fortunately I have a lot of leftover art/office supplies from my late father and from my stint as a Sunday School teacher and my printer has a moderate amount of ink left.

6. That was for the previous venture when I was still very shaken from losing my father. I'm over the mask and puppets now. Puppets might be useful for the standard children's storytelling service though.

7. Strangely, I read that surveys show that people are actually spending more on entertainment. Probably because of the gloominess caused by the economy.

8. I'm expecting 2 sessions before the end of the first month, based on the fact that I'm appealing to several different markets through several different services, at least one of which has a legitimate proven demand.

9. This particular business requires that the foundation be in place for the business to be pitched.

10. I'll be adding new original adventures weekly but that doesn't necessarily mean 2. At least 1 a week though.

11. I don't expect a living but I believe I can make enough for food and transportation while job hunting. It would be a living in my case if I got 2-3 gigs a week.

12. I've been asking people for advice on this. The general opinion is that I could make money from this but probably not a lot. It's better than nothing though.

13. Once I get started up, I'll be blogging on livejournal about my exploits. Don't expect a lot during the first month though.

ALSO

My experience with GMing can be referenced through my recorded sessions on Meetup.com. I'll be asking players to post reviews and feedback on the local meetup group's message board or I might start a playtest meetup group for that purpose. Anyway, I'm building up a recorded history through the group that potential clients can check out.

Hopefully my website will be ready by the end of the weekend. The first business networking party I'm going to is next week and there are going to be plenty of potential clients there.

 

[aboyd]

My experience with GMing can be referenced through my recorded sessions on Meetup.com.

That's not referential experience, that's demonstrable experience. However, I'll not dwell on that. I would like like to hear these. I am a member of meetup.com. Please tell me which group I should join to gain access to these recordings. I can't wait to hear one. Thanks.

 

[Dire Bare]

As many who have posted in this thread, I have strong doubts that Captain C's business venture will bear any fruit at all.

However, there is an awful lot of snark aimed at the guy. Jeesh, lay off people! You may honestly feel the Captain hasn't got much chance at making this work, but at least be respectful of his attempt and try not to be so mean-spirited!

I appreciate those who have offered sincere constructive criticism on a professional GMing gig, and for those who have offered support and advice.

Personally, I wish you well Captain! My own advice, however, is to not only drop this idea and focus on getting a more traditional job, but to go get some help in doing so. If you haven't already, head down to your local government employment office where they probably will not only help you in your job search, but offer classes and seminars on how to effectively find some work.

Either way, it's a tough economy out there, so good luck with whatever direction you choose to go in!

 

[Captain_Commando]

That's not referential experience, that's demonstrable experience. However, I'll not dwell on that. I would like like to hear these. I am a member of meetup.com. Please tell me which group I should join to gain access to these recordings. I can't wait to hear one. Thanks.

When I wrote recorded I meant that they take pictures and that my participation is more or less logged. I'm in the green shirt standing up if you check out the picture from the last monthly meetup.

As for getting a job:
I recently got some help fixing up my resumé and hopefully getting an interview soon with a temp agency.
A friend of mine got me an in with a group called Quixtar that might help me generate extra income on the side.
I'm checking both the classifieds and talent auditions in NYC every day. My freestyle nunchaku skills might actually be useful for an audition this weekend.

I decided to browse further with free web sites and found a web host called Webs. It has a template for web sites that's perfect for my business (looks like a book opened up). I've started putting up basic things. I'll be starting with at least a 1st level adventure and a 5th level adventure, a 3-5 stage puzzle dungeon, and I've decided to do war games after all. For storytelling I'm going to start with biblical stories and see if I can get churches to hire me. I may do the first few stories for free to gain extra references and recommendations.

 

[Yesterday]

I've been following this thread pretty closely.

I thought I'd look into Quixtar a bit for you, Captain Commando, since I hadn't heard of it.

As an initial heads up, the second most popular Quixtar-related google search was 'Quixtar scam'.

It's a multi-level marketing system. IE, Those who recruit you get a cut of any sales you make, and your profits depend on recruiting others...

Just two pieces of advice:
1. If it seems like such a sure-fire way to make money, ask yourself why more people don't do it?

2. If there is ANY KIND of up-front investment required from you, walk away.

EDIT: On further review, Quixtar is pretty much a shady, shady deal. You probably shouldn't sink any time or money into that.

 

[PoeticJustice]

My freestyle nunchaku skills might actually be useful for an audition this weekend.

You had me up until here, but this, in combination with all the other baffling stuff I've seen in your threads is simply too much for me to suspend my disbelief.

Well played sir, well played.