Psionic at-will scaling

[Chzbro]

My apologies if this has been discussed before, but I recently noticed that, unlike those for every other class, the at-will powers for psionic classes with augmentable powers do not scale in damage at epic levels of play.

In other words, while the at-wills for most classes do double [W] or die damage at epic play, psionic at-wills do not scale in this way.

At first I assumed that this was because you continue to replace your old at-wills with new, higher level ones as you advance. The extra damage will be built into the high level powers. But it isn't. Even the level 23 and 27 at-wills still do 1[W] damage rather than 2[W] -- unlike any other class.

Now while it's true that those powers are augmentable, it typically requires 2 power points to boost the damage of even the high level at-wills to the 2[W] standard of the other classes. That means that while everyone else is doing that damage "at-will", psionic classes can do it at a maximum of 7 times a day. And that assumes they don't want to use their power points for anything bigger...ever.

My suspicion is that this is an oversight by the designers and that the higher level at-wills should deal more damage un-augmented, but that's just a suspicion. Am I missing something?

 

[the Jester]

Power points refresh with a short rest, don't they? So that's x points per encounter, right?

 

[Mort_Q]

The non-damaging effects scale for the psionic at-wills, even without augmentation, no?

 

[Mr. Teapot]

This isn't actually a psionic thing; it's a PHB3 thing. Check out the Runepriest's at-wills as well: no Epic scaling.

It's not clear to me if this was deliberate or a mistake, but it's not just the psionic classes with the issue.

That means that while everyone else is doing that damage "at-will", psionic classes can do it at a maximum of 7 times a day.

Per encounter, not per day. Which is pretty much "every round of the fight" then.

 

[Chzbro]

Power points refresh with a short rest, don't they? So that's x points per encounter, right?

They do, Jester. They do indeed.

I think it might have been a very long time before I noticed that.

Thanks for pointing it out. Perhaps now I'll be able to sleep through the night.

However, even with that cleared up there remain a couple of odd inconsistencies. For example, if a non-psionic half-elf takes...say...Energizing Strike with his Dilettante ability (and for our purposes makes it an at-will with Versatile Master), he has no way to boost that at-will damage since he lacks power points.

Now I'm not saying that this is necessarily a problem. Not every feat is equally valuable with every power. But it is a bit odd that some few at-wills simply don't scale the way every other one does.

And while it's true that PPs regen after a short rest (and I was originally thinking extended), it's not unthinkable that a psionic character might engage in a combat more than 7 rounds long. And at that point (barring dailies), he just stops doing as much damage as his companions.

Worse, if he uses power points to turn an attack into an "encounter quality" attack, he also ensures that he has fewer chances to boost the damage of his at-wills. It takes 6 of his 15 power points to boost one of his level 23 or 27 at-wills...which equals 3 of his 7 total chances to boost the at-will from 1[W] damage to 2[W] damage.

And while the non-damaging effects do scale as MortQ correctly points out, there aren't always higher level replacements for the effects you might want. A Battlemind, for example, might like the DR gained from the Level 1 at-will Iron Fist. If so, there are no higher level at-wills that replace this effect, so he's either stuck with a non-scaling, lousy version of what used to be a staple attack or he has to give up the effect entirely. Are Might of the Ogre or Mind of Mirrors better attacks than Iron Fist? Absolutely yes...unless you want DR in which case they don't help at all.

Please understand that I'm not necessarily saying that this is a horrible thing; I'm just trying to wrap my head around the decision to not have the powers scale into epic. While the issue is not nearly as large as I thought, to me it still seems like there's a bit of an issue.

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, I was curious about the lack of scaling for the non-psionic classes in the PH3 too...

 

[Joshua Randall]

As currently structured, there are very very few psionic powers that are worth augmenting with 6 PP when you can just spam the Level 1 powers at 2 PP augment; e.g., Demoralize.

Honestly, I am not worried at all about high-level psionic PCs having too few PPs. If anything they have too many.

 

[Obryn]

You're not the only one perplexed by psionics.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/273643-i-admit-i-dont-get-d-d-4th-edition-psionics.html

The end result: Psionics are a neat concept, but possibly flawed in execution. The biggest issue, IMO, is that (particularly for Ardents and Psions), their Level 1 At-Wills are better than any other At-Wills through Epic. For the Ardent, you really can't beat Demoralizing Strike, Energizing Strike, Focusing Strike, or Ire Strike. And by that, I mean, not until very high levels - and maybe not even then, given how augmentation costs scale.

-O

 

[Aexalon]

This isn't actually a psionic thing; it's a PHB3 thing.

Yeah, I was curious about the lack of scaling for the non-psionic classes in the PH3 too...

The five Seeker @will powers scale fine, thank you.

 

[IanB]

Worse, if he uses power points to turn an attack into an "encounter quality" attack, he also ensures that he has fewer chances to boost the damage of his at-wills. It takes 6 of his 15 power points to boost one of his level 23 or 27 at-wills...which equals 3 of his 7 total chances to boost the at-will from 1[W] damage to 2[W] damage.

Most psionic characters will have 17 power points, not 15 - you left off the 2 bonus power points that psionic paragon paths come with.

There are items and feats that can help with that as well - between Critical Reserve and Psionic Rejuvenation that's another possible 2 power points per encounter, and the cheapest cognizance crystals are basically free at high levels as well.

I do find it a little odd, but I don't think it is going to be a big deal in practice for most situations.