Pyrohydra

[mikebr99]

"A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity" is the disputed passage. This specifically is based on Combat Reflexes, which still limits you to one attack per instance (e.g. one attack on somone casting a spell, but if they move out of a threatened square and cast you get two attacks).

Others interpet it as "a hydra gets one attack of opportunity, with all its heads" which means all you need to do is distract it with an illusion and it'll use up its attacks on it, then you're safe for the rest of the round.

A Hydra is effectivly X monsters in one box... X representing the number of heads. Each head (or monster) has combat reflexes and 12 DEX.... that means that each head (monster) gets 2 AoOs per round.

So, if the big dumb fighter moves to attack the Hydra, and moved out of it's 10ft. threat range, he provokes X AoOs... and then the dumb fighter realizes he's almost dead, and tries to drink a cure potion, he provokes another X AoOs... and hopefully (from the Hydra's perspective) dies.

Mike

 

[lukelightning]

OK, so basically the hydra can make ONE attack of opportunity with all of its heads at once. So once someone has triggered it, then it can't make any AoO's till next round.

That's fine. I just see people interpreting it as "a 12 headed hydra can make 12 attacks of 12 bites...."

I prefer my rule, a 12 headed hydra can make 12 attacks of opportunity a round (single bites). That way you are pretty much always threatened.

 

[mikebr99]

OK, so basically the hydra can make ONE attack of opportunity with all of its heads at once. So once someone has triggered it, then it can't make any AoO's till next round.

No... the Hydra still has 12 DEX, so each head has the option to deliver 2 AoOs per round.

If a character were to do 2 (or more) different stupid things (which provoke AoOs) in a round, while threatened by a 12 headed Hydra... the character should expect 24 bites at him.

Mike

 

[Nail]

But lukelightning, the text does NOT say a hydra of X heads gets X AoOs per round. It says the hydra may use ALL of its heads for an AoO. Since it has a 12 Dex and combat reflexes, it may make 2 AoOs per round.

BTW: From a balance perspective, the "by the book" interpretation is fine. The Hydra is an absolute brute in a toe-to-toe (no strategy) charge-n-slug fest. If the PCs do this, they're being (at best) foolhardy. But if the PCs use tactics, and perhaps ranged weapons, the hydra is worth its CR.

 

[Fieari]

Where hydras get REALLY nasty, are in tight enclosed spaces with not a lot of room to run. Cave hydras are vicious little buggers.

 

[frankthedm]

A Hydra is effectivly X monsters in one box... X representing the number of heads. Each head (or monster) has combat reflexes and 12 DEX.... that means that each head (monster) gets 2 AoOs per round.

So, if the big dumb fighter moves to attack the Hydra, and moved out of it's 10ft. threat range, he provokes X AoOs... and then the dumb fighter realizes he's almost dead, and tries to drink a cure potion, he provokes another X AoOs... and hopefully (from the Hydra's perspective) dies.

Mike

If you go with that assumption, I'd hope you allow someone to use cleave / greatcleave when sundering the heads.

I feel the hydra is fine with the One AoO to a customer, since it could move and get a full attack. Plus for thier CR, a 5 headed hydra is darn tough for a CR 4 if it takes one AoO per victim. 5 AoO's to a customer, twice over, sounds a CR or two higher.

To sever a head, an opponent must make a successful sunder attempt with a slashing weapon. (The player should declare where the attack is aimed before making the attack roll.) Making a sunder attempt provokes an attack of opportunity unless the foe has the Improved Sunder feat.

 

[frankthedm]

But lukelightning, the text does NOT say a hydra of X heads gets X AoOs per round. It says the hydra may use ALL of its heads for an AoO.

No, it does not say that. If it were that clear, there would be no argument at all on this subject. The hydra's CR would be the subject of another argument though.

It says:
A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

It does not say:
A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for an attack of opportunity.

 

[Nail]

5 AoO's to a customer, twice over, sounds a CR or two higher.

I'd almost agree with you, if the hydra was decent at ranged attacks and had an Int worth mentioning.

But it's not. It's meat-on-the-ground for those with good strategy and a few ranged attacks. And the challenge is highly dependent on the terrain. If this thing is holed up in a narrow cave with a sharp 90 degree angle, then the DM should apply the XP modifiers for a higher EL.

As a player (at 5th level), our party ran into a 7-headed cryohydra. We ran....and then regrouped. Later we came back with the spells and the organization to beat it into paste in 2 rounds. The 1st level spell Obscuring mist, for example, takes away all of those nasty AoOs. And Resist Energy applies to each head's breath weapon, effectively negating them. Etc.

 

[Nail]

It says:
A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

It does not say:
A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for an attack of opportunity.

So, if I (Human Ftr) have Combat reflexes and a 12 Dex, may I use my greatsword:

• "for attacks of opportunity", or
• "for an attack of opportunity".

 

[frankthedm]

So, if I (Human Ftr) have Combat reflexes and a 12 Dex, may I use my greatsword:

• "for attacks of opportunity", or
• "for an attack of opportunity".

A human fighter and the weapon he wields has nothing to do with the monster abilities and feat tweaks of a hydra. The issue at hand is how much does the hydra's tweak to combat reflexes changes things. IIRC even Wotc has said it is a DM's call.

Some feel the text lets the hydra take a flurry of attacks on an AoO.

AoO #1 Head A, Head B, Head C, Head D, Head E.
AoO #2 Head A, Head B, Head C, Head D, Head E.

Others feel the text gives a hydra access to a number of AoOs equal to its head count.

AoO Head A
AoO Head B
AoO Head C
AoO Head D
AoO Head E

Both are correct by the way the text was written.