TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

 

[Storm Raven]

The whole village in 13th Warrior was a trap with sharpened stakes and timbers arrayed to keep the horsemen at bay. Just like the village in a famous Kurosawa film I could name.

And yet the warriors in The 13th Warrior fought the final battle outside the ring of sharpened stakes. Given that, I'm not seeing how this supports your "it's just like The Seven Samurai" argument.

 

[Tewligan]

Hello again, Gary. Over the weekend, I was happy to find a copy of "Saga of Old City" at the used book store. I remembered really enjoying it when I got it for Christmas 20+ years ago, and it was a nostalgic good time this past week re-reading it on the bus to work. Now I need to hunt down "Artifact of Evil" again. I mean the book, not the actual artifact...

Anyway, you suggested in the afterword that the cataboligne demon would be statted out in some future AD&D book. As far as I know, that never happened officially, but did you ever have any set stats for the big blue bastard? If so, and if you can remember/have the notes handy, any chance of giving us an idea of what he was like?

Also, you mentioned that the druid Curley Greenleaf was one of your game characters. So, what was his final game fate? Did he go on to riches and glory? Retire to a nice grove of his own? Die while challenging extra-planar nasties? Or just get tucked away into the Great Character Folder In the Sky? And were Chert, Gellor, and company also PC's played by yourself or anyone else?

Oh, and has been said several times before, thanks for taking the time to answer the endless questions in this thread!

 

[Marshal Lucky]

That sounds a lot less like a movie-ripoff thing and a lot more like a real-life how to protect a village vs. calvary invaders thing.

Do you have any evidence (aside from perceived similarities that no one else on this thread has yet agreed with as being enough evidence to be convincing) that 13th Warrior's director was inspired by Seven Samurai? It's not like the director would have a reason to hide it, as he could just say it was a homage. Was there an interview given? Or has any film critic made in print or on TV this connection that you are making?

Type the words "13th Warrior" and "Seven Samurai" into the Google search bar and look at the results.

 

[Particle_Man]

Type the words "13th Warrior" and "Seven Samurai" into the Google search bar and look at the results.

Now that is interesting. I still haven't found any of them saying why one is inspired by the other, but at least now I know you are not alone.

But even if the one movie was inspired by the latter, which frankly I am not convinced of yet, "inspired by" is not the same as "lame rip-off" of. The two movies are quite different. For the list of "similarities" you give (many of which have been challenged in this thread) there are equivalent lists of "differences":

-Seven Samurai has no foreigner learning about a strange culture (and the members of that culture learning about the foreigner - which ranges from their initial derision of the "toy sword" that the Bandaras character has made, to the warriors' leader appreciation of the ability to "draw" a story to remember the tales of a hero, for example), which is a major point of 13th Warrior.

-The former movie has no equivalent to the "bandit's mother" or "bandit's permanent lair", and no slow-acting poisons (leading to a rather inspiring speech at the end).

-There is no "are they are aren't they?" question about the supernatural nature of their bandit foes in the former movie, like there is in the latter. The bandits in the former movie have no religious or cannibalistic overtones.

-As stated above, the reaction of the "love interest" by the rest of the villagers was *very* different in the two movies. And Seven Samurai did not invent the idea of strangers having romantic encounters.

-The gathering of the warriors is very different in the two films, with one taking seconds and the other one going through a long process of finding people (and getting rejected by at least one).

-Dealing with discord in the village (directed at the protectors) is done very differently in the two films. One's solution is through talking, and the other through violence.

This leaves us with the "leader that seldom speaks", "each member of the group having a speciality", "defending the village with stakes and such" and "the slow motion battle in the rain of few on foot vs. many mounted".

The first one is a common trope: "stoic warrior". That is older than Seven Samurai and I see no reason to think the influence came from just that one movie. The second is a necessity of making any movie about a group of otherwise similar people, so that the audience can keep track of who is who. That would have been in 13th Warrior whether or not Seven Samurai was ever made, because it has to. The third is just a common sense realization of how to defend a village vs. attackers. Castles have moats, villages have palisades. That idea is far older than movies are, and there is no reason to expect that one movie only got that idea from the other.

The last one is possibly convincing, since you have a lot of separate events coming together. "Rain", "On foot vs. Mounted" and "Slow Motion". So I could imagine that *this one scene* was inspired by a scene in another movie, but that is about it. And many movies do that. A kinder word than "rip off" would be "homage". And, on the other hand, I could also believe in parallel thinking.

I liked both movies, but don't see the case you are making as convincing.

 

[RFisher]

"inspired by" is not the same as "lame rip-off" of.

Yeah! Just like that really smart guy said up-thread.

(^_^)

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Hi Haakon1,

As a general rule I select the magic items to be discovered in a set encounter, use random table determination for all treasure in a random encounter.

On occasion I will have a real magic item for sale, or available as a gift if a PC or PCs do the prescrubed things correctly. ANy item that can be purchased is of very minimal magic--mostly some minor healing or a +1 arrow for example.

Dealers in "magic" in my campaign settings are generally swindlers, and that makes it doubly hard for players when they come across an NPC that is offering something not a fake.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Howdy HGF,

Bonfiglioni is a lor easier to read than Eco, and there is a good deal more excitement in his yarns

Cheerio,

Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

That was a good ripoff of The Seven Samurai

Agreed, although I found the original Japanese film more entertaining than the American adaptation.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

G'Day Tewligan,

Troll Lord Games is publishing the entire seven books in the Gord series in hardback editions, beginning with Saga of Old City being released at GenCon. As I have yet to see and polish the ms. for Artifact of Evil, I can not say when the Trolls will have it available.

IIRR, there were indeed full stats for the cataboligne demon but I surely can not recall the details after all these years...and so many nw and different critters devised since that one.

Curley Greenleaf went the way of many aPC...his CRS was misplaced or lost, so he is in limbo, has been for over 20 years now. Chert, Gellor, and company were creations of mine for purposes of story telling. The elf, Melf, was a PC played by my son Luke...who resented my duping him for the scene with Keek, that I played out.

I do enjoy the opportunity to relate virtually with so many fellow gamers here, so thank you for being a part of the fun

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Speaking of really smart guys...

Solomon said "There is nothing new under the sun." That was maybe three millenia back too

Cheerio,
Gary