TSR Q&A with Gary Gygax

This is the multi-year Q&A sessions held by D&D co-creator Gary Gygax here at EN World, beginning in 2002 and running up until his sad pasing in 2008. Gary's username in the thread below is Col_Pladoh, and his first post in this long thread is Post #39.

 

[JamesM]

Gary,

I can't help but notice that, among the many PCs from your old Greyhawk campaign, comparatively few of them are demihumans. Likewise, Oerth, while possessing a few demihuman states like Celene, is clearly a world where humanity holds the upper hand. I presume this was done intentionally, perhaps as a nod to the pulp fantasies where non-human races are rare to non-existent?

Thanks.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

I assumed that was your intention. I ask mostly because there are some differences between the D&D cleric archetype and the more usual priestly one, specifically the combat puissance of the cleric.

....

Remember that I modeled the cleric class on Bishop Odo and Friar Tuck...both able combatants

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Gary,

I can't help but notice that, among the many PCs from your old Greyhawk campaign, comparatively few of them are demihumans. Likewise, Oerth, while possessing a few demihuman states like Celene, is clearly a world where humanity holds the upper hand. I presume this was done intentionally, perhaps as a nod to the pulp fantasies where non-human races are rare to non-existent?

Thanks.

Of course all well-considered fantasy world settings are homocentric. The authors are human, and all of the actual historical information available deals only with human culture, society, and history, save for mytholoigy and folklore. Even those latter sources are homocentric in perspective.

I for one do not care to spend years of time and effort imagining and creating an exotic universe for a non-human race or races, complete with all that pertains to such a group. Just think of all the informatin we know and have recorded regarding humanity, and the effort needed to create a tenth of that lore for an imaginary race.

In short, that's why all the non-human races in imaginative writings such as books and games are not really very different from humans, just variants of them with some qualities exaggerated to give apparent differentiation--Klingons are fiercely warlike, Vulcans are coldly mental, Ferengi are completely crass and venal, etc. So dwarves are stout and love ale, elves are slender and nature-oriented, orcs are ugly and brutal...but have essentially human culture and societies.

Cheers,
Gary

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[trollwad]

Can you elaborate a bit on how you envisioned the Mage of the Valley? What exactly do you mean by a demi-urge? A demi-god somehow tied to a specific geographic feature. For example, the river (godling) Skamander in the Iliad? How similar was he to Basiliv in your Gord novel? I found Basiliv and Bardilingham odd because they seemed awfully tame compared to how the Valley of the Mage was described in the world of greyhawk glossography.

I use the Skamander example because I had always thought that since the mighty Javan River rises in the valley that the demi-urge might be related to the river (relegated to a backwater due to humanity's incursion into the Sheldomar)?

Any other thoughts on this topic? The nature of the Valley of the Mage was always one of those untouched gems that linger to this day.

 

[trollwad]

Below description of 'demiurge' is out of wikipedia. In what way do you see Bombadil and/or the mage of the valley as a demiurge if you use the word in that sense? If Oerth had the tripartite elder elemental gods who spun the universe out of chaos, then how does this much lesser (neutral) demiurge relate to the EEG? What is the relationship between a demiurge like the mage of the valley and Beory? Is he a more personal manifestation of her?

The Demiurge, The Craftsman or Creator, in some belief systems is the deity responsible for the creation of the physical universe. Originally, the demiurge was described as a divine entity in the works of Plato circa 360BC, but later in Gnosticism the term refers to the evil creator god of the material world.

The demiurge appears in a number of different religious and philosophical systems, most notably Platonism and later Gnosticism. Plato uses the term to mean the omni-benevolent creation. For Plato, the demiurge is a creator (of the laws or the heaven) or the creator (of the World) in Timaeus.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Can you elaborate a bit on how you envisioned the Mage of the Valley? What exactly do you mean by a demi-urge? A demi-god somehow tied to a specific geographic feature. For example, the river (godling) Skamander in the Iliad? How similar was he to Basiliv in your Gord novel? I found Basiliv and Bardilingham odd because they seemed awfully tame compared to how the Valley of the Mage was described in the world of greyhawk glossography.

I use the Skamander example because I had always thought that since the mighty Javan River rises in the valley that the demi-urge might be related to the river (relegated to a backwater due to humanity's incursion into the Sheldomar)?

Any other thoughts on this topic? The nature of the Valley of the Mage was always one of those untouched gems that linger to this day.

As the IP in question is the property of WotC/Hasbro, I find it bootless to go into lengthy discussions regarding any portion of it.

Suffice say that Basiliv was envisaged as a demiurge in the classic sense of the term, a tool used by the creator, and is better personified by envisioning Tom Bombadil.

The rest is in the hands of the DMs utilizing the setting...and WotC to whatever extent they care to elaborate upon it.

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[JamesM]

Of course all well-considered fantasy world settings are homocentric. The authors are human, and all of the actual historical information available deals only with human culture, society, and history, save for mytholoigy and folklore. Even those latter sources are homocentric in perspective.

Fair enough. What I actually meant, though -- and the answer is probably the same at any rate -- is why did you make demihumans and demihuman states rare in the Greyhawk setting? Was this simply a consequence of their being difficult to describe in anything other than broad/stereotypical terms or was there an (for wont of a better word) "philosophical" reason for their scarcity? I'd always assumed that it was the influence of both earlier fantasy, which tended to lack demihumans altogether, and an adherence to folklore, which generally assumes that "demihumans" hide from humanity.

My apologies if this question is simply a repetition of what I asked previously.

Thanks.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

Fair enough. What I actually meant, though -- and the answer is probably the same at any rate -- is why did you make demihumans and demihuman states rare in the Greyhawk setting? Was this simply a consequence of their being difficult to describe in anything other than broad/stereotypical terms or was there an (for wont of a better word) "philosophical" reason for their scarcity? I'd always assumed that it was the influence of both earlier fantasy, which tended to lack demihumans altogether, and an adherence to folklore, which generally assumes that "demihumans" hide from humanity.

My apologies if this question is simply a repetition of what I asked previously.

Thanks.

The answer is related to what I said regarding the virtual impossibility of creating a completely exotic milieu for a human-like, or even an intelligent, non-human species. There is no frame of reference from which to work.

As for the demi-human, and humanoid as well, states in the Flanaess, they are relatively few because it is assumed that humans are the dominant species on the world. Were it otherwise, then one would have to deal with the creation of one or more exotic cultures and societies that I addressed previously. the locigal level limits on non-human races is also directly related to this problem.

Personally, I do not find a cobbled-up "non-human" history, culture, and society that is plainly based on humanity particularly attractive in a fantasy world setting...even if a special language is created to give the contrived work verisimilitude.

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[Geoffrey]

Personally, I do not find a cobbled-up "non-human" history, culture, and society that is plainly based on humanity particularly attractive in a fantasy world setting.

I thoroughly agree. Non-humans should not be absurd "funny-looking humans with cool powers".

 

[Col_Pladoh]

I thoroughly agree. Non-humans should not be absurd "funny-looking humans with cool powers".

Tell me, what else are virtually all the humanoid races in fantasy and SF if not just that?...although they may not have special powers, just accentuated human characterists and senses.

As a matter of fact I am guilty of creating such species myself, but there is a reason, I am a human and think accordingly, and as I think I create. when a young female editor for a large publishing house once querried me in accusitory tone, "Why do you always write from the masculine perspective?!"

"Madam, I happen to be a male."


Gary