D&D 4E Question on creating an encounter in 4E

[Belbarid]

After playing it a bit, I drank the kool-aid and bought the 4th ed Player's Manual, DMG, and Monster Manual with the intention of converting my existing campaign to 4E.

Toward that end, I created two encounters to run- one combat, one skills. As I was creating enemies for the combat encounter, I started to run into problems. I wanted the leader to be an 8th level Warlord so, like I always did in #e, I made an 8th level Warlord. It seemed to me, though, that this character would be *far* tougher than the MM's 4th level Human Berzerker with 4 more levels added. The 8th level Warlord would have a lot more exploits and feats that the stock human "monster" would have.

Am I approaching this the right way? Should I have added 4 levels to the berzerker and added a Warlord template? That didn't seem to me to make all that great a bad guy, either.

Normally I don't get all that worked up over whether or not I'm doing things exactly as WotC intended, but I'd like to get a basis for what I'm doing here. I guess what I'm getting at is whether or not enemies in 4e are meant to be made like PCs are, or if they're deliberately toned down.

 

[-Avalon-]

Actually, there are several ways to make an enemy:

1- Level up a creature in the MM (this just makes ema wee bit tougher)
2- Add a Template (usually mixes some unusual abilities in to throw players off: IE a Brute type with "spells")
3- Change it to Elite or Solo using the rules in DMG (often making them a decent bit tougher, while retaining the original flavor of the creature)
4- Go from scratch! (My experience so far says this is the hardest method, but yields tougher enemies, rules in DMG also, in the toolbox)

Of course one can create a basic enemy using option 4, raise it to Elite using option 3, and add a template from option 2... Leaving you with a Human Enemy (lvl 8 Elite) w/ Template (warlord, making it a Lvl 8 Solo)

Hope this helps! Look in the DMG: DM's Toolbox.

 

[Belbarid]

Just so I understand, if I add a class to a human enemy- either through a class template *or* by creating the enemy as I would a standard PC, that enemy becomes an Elite enemy.

Then a second template makes the enemy a Solo, correct?

Thanks, btw. I really like the new guidelines for building encounters. Much, much easier to work with.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

I wanted the leader to be an 8th level Warlord so, like I always did in #e, I made an 8th level Warlord.

This part of your post is ambiguous. It's also essential. So I have to ask: How did you make the 8th level Warlord?

Because NPCs are not made like PCs any more. If you do, they work out tougher than a standard enemy. You want to look in the section on creating NPCs. It's in the DMG a few pages after the section with templates.

NPCs at 8th level get only one at-will, one encounter, one daily and one utility power. They also get HPs according to a more monster-like formula rather than a PC-like formula. NPCs also don't typically have any feats and can survive just fine without magic items, because they get a generalized level bonus to things.

 

[Belbarid]

This part of your post is ambiguous. It's also essential. So I have to ask: How did you make the 8th level Warlord?

Because NPCs are not made like PCs any more. If you do, they work out tougher than a standard enemy. You want to look in the section on creating NPCs. It's in the DMG a few pages after the section with templates.

NPCs at 8th level get only one at-will, one encounter, one daily and one utility power. They also get HPs according to a more monster-like formula rather than a PC-like formula. NPCs also don't typically have any feats and can survive just fine without magic items, because they get a generalized level bonus to things.

I made the Warlord exactly as if I was making a player character, and I'm starting to get the feeling that makes for a far tougher opponent than the encounter rules expects.18

So, would the more proper way of doing this be to use the Monster Design Steps on pg 184 of the DMG and then give him the Warlord template?

 

[Henrix]

Well, the proper, simple, way to do it is by following the guidelines for making an NPC on p.187-8 in the DMG. Which are a simpler version of how to create PCs, basically. (The hit points are probably off, though, and should be n x (level +1) + constitution score.)

If you want something a little more unique, or based on a creature that does not just follow the normal rules for PCs, use the Warlord template on another creature (homebrewed or not).

 

[Dalzig]

I made the Warlord exactly as if I was making a player character, and I'm starting to get the feeling that makes for a far tougher opponent than the encounter rules expects.18

So, would the more proper way of doing this be to use the Monster Design Steps on pg 184 of the DMG and then give him the Warlord template?

The only time you should ever do a PC writeup for an NPC is if you want a BBEG that keeps on coming back.

So it depends on how long you plan for them to stick around for:
1 encounter = monster w/ class template
1 adventure = NPC (as seen in the DMG)
1 campaign = DMPC (made as a PC)

 

[Belbarid]

Okay, I think this makes sense now.

Thanks, all.