Quick and Dirty Magic System

[Scott DeWar]

I wasn't going to say something but I read this :

Having spells cost double their spell level -1 might work, though I'd probably want to increase the amount of spells recovered every round to 2.

and especially this:

As for infringing upon Sorcerers: I would probably eliminate them. I don't find that class terribly playable or necessary.

this invoke an idea for you: 1 move = 1 point ; 1 full round = 3 points

according to what i see here, if i have been reading this right, a wizard cound cast magic missle, spend a move and get a point back, then cast a magic missle, spend a move . . . .

am I right?

As for the comment about the un-playability or un-necessity of Scorcers, I vahemently dissagree. Have you ever tried one of that class, just for the flavor of the character alone?

I have a monk-scorcerer that is of a dragon linage in the asian flavor. I think that is a most awsome twist to the 3.5 ed.

 

[Noah Fentz]

I have to agree with Scott. There is no way a spellcaster should replenish that quickly or easily. D&D has always been about balance, whether or not it's ever really been achieved notwithstanding, this system would make spellcasters WAY overpowered.

Personally, I like the way it's done now.

Maybe you could convert the current system to a point system and create one-time use magic items to replenish spell potential instead. At least that way there's a price to pay, and it should be a steep one.

 

[Croesus]

I have to agree with Scott. There is no way a spellcaster should replenish that quickly or easily. D&D has always been about balance, whether or not it's ever really been achieved notwithstanding, this system would make spellcasters WAY overpowered.

Personally, I like the way it's done now.

There are many ways to balance the classes. You clearly prefer some kind of daily limits on spells, which is an effective approach. For those who prefer a more encounter-focused balance mechanism, the OP's system works well.

As for the replenishment rate, I personally prefer limiting it to one point per round, as a spellcaster will have to manage his spell points for longer battles (a battle that lasts just a couple rounds won't matter). However, allowing a single spell point (the equivalent of a 1st level spell) to be recovered each round really isn't a game breaker.

Consider a 1st level caster. With this system, he can cast magic missile every round. Gee, he's going to do 2-5 points of damage, average 3 points, and always hits. Is that really so much better than using a light crossbow to do 1-8 points of damage, average 5 points, with an attack roll?

Same situation with a 10th level caster. He can cast magic missile doing 10-25 points of damage, average 15 points, and always hits. Not bad, but he's 10th level, the barbarian is almost certainly dishing out more damage, and the opposition for a 10th level party isn't going to go down quickly at 15 points of damage per round.

As I stated above, my own group used a very similar system for two campaigns and had no balance issues. There are just too many things the other classes do better, and there are always situations which spells can't handle (assuming good enounter design by the GM).

 

[Croesus]

Okay onto general thoughts and flaws.
I like the idea, but I don't think it works with regular Pathfinder. I would like to see this system extended to allow others to be able to cast spells, probably with a different flavour. Meaning, rituals allowing a fighter to be able to open a portal, assuming they know how.

In my last iteration of the system my group used, we expanded the idea to cover all classes. Non-spellcasters had a similar pool of "action" points that could be used for special maneuvers. Most feats required action points to use.

Some examples:
Cleave - one action point per cleave attempt.
Trip, grapple, disarm, etc. - +2 to roll per action point spent, plus one point spent to attempt the maneuver.
Dodge - gain a one round dodge bonus of +2 per action point spent.
Power Attack - gain a one round bonus of +2 damage per action point spent.
Sneak Attack - one action point per two dice of damage, up to max dice allowed by level

We also added new feats to give characters additional options. For example, spend action points to bypass damage reduction, or to allow a sneak attack against opponents normally immune to them.

I really like the idea of a unified mechanic that allowed all classes to do extra stuff, but the trade off was a limited pool of points. That would neatly counter the issue some groups had with APAATT, "trip monkey", etc., while still allowing characters to use such maneuvers. My players, however, preferred having non-spellcasters be simpler to play, and managing action points was another distraction at the table, so we ended up keeping the system only for spellcaters. Oh well...

 

[hawaiianbrian]

I really appreciate the feedback, which has pointed out some issues. Some of them I already knew going in and others hadn't really occurred to me.

I want a system that is easy to calculate, easy to explain, and easy to implement. I don't mean to start a war here, but I'm one of those people who despises Vancian magic (I find it unbelievable that we're still having to deal with that weird, unintuitive system to this day just because, 30 years ago, Gary Gygax read a novel he liked). I prefer a spell points system or, if it could ever be achieved, a strictly skill-based system where spellcasters are free to cast as often as they like, just like fighters are free to swing their swords as often as they like. Unfortunately, with D&D/Pathfinder's massive logarithmic scale making the difference between a 1st-level spell and a 9th-level spell the difference between a fire cracker and a nuclear warhead, that probably is impossible.

I've actually considered rewriting all the spells, trying to pare things down to about 50 by combining similar spells. In this "dream" spell list of mine, there would be no spell levels; you could use a spell from 1st-level to 20th at a scaling level of power. For instance, Time Stop would be available (if you choose to acquire it) at 1st level, granting you a free partial action. At 3rd level that would change into a free standard action, etc. etc. Kind of like the way d20 Wheel of Time did spells.

Anyway I digress. To those concerned this would make spellcasters more powerful, I can see that you're right, and that's why I'm very appreciative of everyone's comments. I'm going crazy with the magic system as it is and need some kind of change. Working with much smaller numbers of power points that refresh seems simpler and more intuitive to me. It also prevents the "I need to rest" problem and keeps things moving. I just need to figure out how to make it work properly.

Sorcerers: I tried playing one a few months ago in our Pathfinder game and ended up begging the DM to let me change the character into something else (I went with Bard, hated that too, and ended up ditching the character because it was impossible to force the concept into one of the 11 straightjacketed classes). I like the bloodlines idea, just found the tiny amount of spells to be unworkable. So now I play a Wizard, and though with a 26 Intelligence I have 72 spell points at 8th level, making me very versatile for a long time without resting, I am still seeking something simpler.