Races and Classes

[BradfordFerguson]

Hmmm? Races & Classes is already out in stores. It's a done deal. People are posting today like it's not out already? Though it's $20 for a preview, as a D&D nerd I am definitely getting enjoyment out of reading it.

Core Races:
human
dragonborn
dwarf
eladrin (high elf)
elf (wood elf)
halfling
tiefling

(more in future books: celestial, drow, gnomes [as fey?], warforged)

Classes:
cleric
fighter
rogue
warlock

barbarian
bard
druid
monk
paladin
ranger
sorceror
swordmage (ie elven bladesinger, dwarven runic warrior, tiefling whirling dervish)
warlord (frontline commander)

It is a preview book and they state that things are "subject to change"

I may start a review blog and add a review of the preview (heh) once I finish reading and digesting.

 

[Andor]

Really? Keeping in mind that the preview book must also go through development and printing? The content of Races and Classes had to be finished well before the book was actually released. Plus, every hour spent writing stuff for R&C is an hour not spent working on 4E.

That is ... my point exactly. We were told the preview books would nail down answers, and yet we know that the answers they nail down are not the correct ones. (E.G. The Swordmage had been officially kicked to the PHB II, but is featured in the R&C book.) Further they shifted the positioning of the book from 'here are answers' to 'here are hints and nifty pictures'. This tells us the R&C book they printed was not the book they thought it would be back at Gencon. I draw from this that things are considerably more in flux than they thought they would be at this point.

When your project is not on it's original schedule but you've advertised a release date you have two choices. You can let the release date slip, or you can let the quality of your product slip. I'm worried they'll pick the wrong option. :\

 

[JohnSnow]

Actually, any reasonable reading of Races and Classes tells you exactly what classes were planned for the PHB when it went to press. Firstly:

Cleric
Fighter
Rogue
Wizard
Warlock

These are all confirmed with full class write-ups in Races and Classes. However, we know that 8 classes were planned for PHB 1, based on the following:

So the Flywheel team's main job was to nudge the eight player character classes away from the flamboyant precipes they'd occupied in Orcus II

Furthermore, we know the ranger is in. A couple sentences later, Rob Heinsoo says:

Flywheel design eventually led us to put the swashbuckler aside, gifting his cool moves to the ranger and the rogue. We drafted the warlock in his place

Later, the barbarian and druid are mentioned as among the classes Mearls was drafting for Player's Handbook II, so we know they're out.

We've had a premier of paladin smites from the PHB. So we know paladins are in. We also have been told unequivocally that the warlord is in PHB I. That makes our list of 8:

Cleric
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard

Since then, they may have added a class or two. Which one is anybody's guess. But the only thing I'll almost guarantee is that it's not the swashbuckler.

 

[Voss]

That is ... my point exactly. We were told the preview books would nail down answers, and yet we know that the answers they nail down are not the correct ones. (E.G. The Swordmage had been officially kicked to the PHB II, but is featured in the R&C book.) Further they shifted the positioning of the book from 'here are answers' to 'here are hints and nifty pictures'. This tells us the R&C book they printed was not the book they thought it would be back at Gencon. I draw from this that things are considerably more in flux than they thought they would be at this point.

When your project is not on it's original schedule but you've advertised a release date you have two choices. You can let the release date slip, or you can let the quality of your product slip. I'm worried they'll pick the wrong option. :\

Actually, we were specifically told that the preview books would *not* nail down answers, that they were simply a snapshot of development as it stood at the time.

Unofficially, it was pretty clear that they were inherently useless as anything other than a glimpse at the design process and art.

Btw, PH classes and races:
human, dwarf, elf, eladrin, halfling, halfelf, dragonborn, tiefling
fighter, wizard, cleric, rogue, ranger, paladin, warlock, warlord

That said, a lot of little details will probably be loose and poorly play-tested. Partly because of lack of time, but mostly because their grasp of technical English is pretty poor. They've shown repeatedly over the years (and in 4e previews), that they don't quite grasp the subtle interactions between systems, wordings and individual abilities. I'm expecting 20 odd pages of errata for each of the core books. Check out the latest miniatures release- 4 pages of clarification for a mere 60 figs, and this is what, the 6th or 7th DDM release? Not a good sign

not 100% official, but pretty clear, and stable for some time now.

 

[~Johnny~]

That is ... my point exactly. We were told the preview books would nail down answers, and yet we know that the answers they nail down are not the correct ones. (E.G. The Swordmage had been officially kicked to the PHB II, but is featured in the R&C book.)

R&C, within the book at least, does not promise to nail anything down. Clearly I did not get any indication from R&C that the Swordmage would be in the first PHB, just as I don't expect Warforged to be in it even though they were described there. they're just trying to preview possibilities and leave themselves plenty of leeway to avoid needless outrage at any last-minute additions or changes.

That said, the races seem pretty clear at this point. From the first inside spread of R&C we have:

Human
Elf
Dragonborn
Halfling
Half-elf
Tiefling
Dwarf
Eladrin

Classes are a little less clear, but here's EN World's list, with asterisks by definite choices:

Fighter*
Ranger
Paladin
Cleric*
Wizard*
Rogue*
Warlock*
Warlord

Paladins are nearly confirmed because it's been mentioned that there will be at least two classes for each "power source" in the PHB (and ranger is now martial rather than divine). Developers have strongly implied that druids and barbarians (two classes with "nature" power sources will be in a subsequent release).

 

[Andor]

It's possibly my memory is faulty, but I recall pretty clearly that the original sales pitch for the R&C book, as we were told about it back at the Gencon briefing, was that it nailed down hard data about races and classes, not that it allowed slightly more educated guesses. Since then it has undergone 'mission drift'. That never works out well. ^^

 

[JohnSnow]

Classes are a little less clear, but here's EN World's list, with asterisks by definite choices:

Fighter*
Ranger
Paladin
Cleric*
Wizard*
Rogue*
Warlock*
Warlord

Paladins are nearly confirmed because it's been mentioned that there will be at least two classes for each "power source" in the PHB (and ranger is now martial rather than divine). Developers have strongly implied that druids and barbarians (two classes with "nature" power sources will be in a subsequent release).

I think Ranger is pretty solidly confirmed. Evidence:

1. There's the line I quoted from Races and Classes about the swashbuckler's stuff being divided between the rogue and the ranger.
2. It's one of 3 classes mentioned in the elf write-up directly from the PHB. The other 2 are cleric and rogue.
3. We know that when the warlock was added to the Player's Handbook, it already contained 2 other strikers, one melee (the rogue) and one ranged. That sure sounds like the ranger.
4. There are 12 paragon paths in the Player's Handbook. Each path is based on two classes. Two of the four paths specifically mentioned by Logan Bonner are the ones for fighter/ranger and ranger/wizard.

How's that for evidence?

 

[bonethug0108]

The ranger is not martial, he is divine. He has been mentioned as the divine striker several times.

There are AT LEAST two classes per power source. Martial and divine have three while arcane has two(based on the known 8). Now they may add more classes given room in the phb and time, but at one point it was said straight out that it would be 8 classes.

 

[Darth Cyric]

The ranger is not martial, he is divine. He has been mentioned as the divine striker several times.

No, he has not, and I'd appreciate it if you quit spreading such misinformation.

 

[bonethug0108]

No, he has not, and I'd appreciate it if you quit spreading such misinformation.

I'm not. It has been mentioned as I've said in the other thread. I'm trying to look on the wotc site for the article but it seems to be having problems. I'm going to look for the vid on youtube.